[Poll] Removing Map Vote | Imposing Time Limits

[DaddyO]

Agree.

The map vote is such a great feature but it is being abused by some A hole. Really sucks that those of us who enjoy playing the game are punished for the behavior of one or two. I suggest we look for a programmer who might be able to help you identify who is doing this and perma ban them.

Thanks.

If it is allowed and used by many, it is not a banable offense even thou it is aggravating as heck. Today I was getting "180 seconds" or something like that after a failed vote and trying to vote another map. Obviously someone did something to slow down the votes. BTW, it had been a lot longer than 180 secs. Not sure what is up with that.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

Server empty by 5:45pm EST on a Sunday. I agree with @silvia these constant votes are unnecessary. The community votes to approve a change and then those changes are made void by a couple of admins and new votes are again initiated.

In my opinion, there was no need to add the timer. Most of us got used to map vote spamming. Things were running relatively fine. If map vote was being misused then just turn it off and leave everything else as is.

Fix one issue and create two more. It is a thankless job but thank you for trying.

There was no fixing needed! We had a big community vote last year which approved removing map-vote and map-timer. A decent majority of the community approved this change. But the dear-leader(RUS-Warrior) was not happy with the community's approval so after a few smoothly running months he initiated a second vote to bring back map-vote among other previous settings. Again the majority voted to keep the map-vote off but the dear-leader chose to exclude votes from inactive players and unilaterally brought map-vote back. Thankfully, he didn't reactivate the timer. Unfortunately the dreaded timer is back.

Agree.

The map vote is such a great feature but it is being abused by some A hole. Really sucks that those of us who enjoy playing the game are punished for the behavior of one or two. I suggest we look for a programmer who might be able to help you identify who is doing this and perma ban them.

Thanks.

A Holes:

• Players (and admins) who constantly want to play one or few of their favorite maps over others
• Players (and admins) who rage-quit after complaining and cursing when their non-favorite maps are running
• Players (and admins) who insult the majority of other players after their constant map-vote spamming to change to his/her favorite map failed
• Players (and admins) who insult the majority of other players after majority of players vote to change the map from this player's favorite map to a non-favorite map.
• Players (and admins) who just want to keep going back to a recently played map by spamming map-voting, ruining the map order and preventing other future players (who join server later) from playing maps that were next in order
• Players (and admins) who have no patience to play on other maps besides their favorite maps

On a positive note, I am glad that these changes are at least going through a public vote, although some of these votes are unfairly lobbied by admins on social media to favor a certain outcome.

 

[Vmax]

Server empty by 5:45pm EST on a Sunday. I agree with @silvia these constant votes are unnecessary. The community votes to approve a change and then those changes are made void by a couple of admins and new votes are again initiated.

In my opinion, there was no need to add the timer. Most of us got used to map vote spamming. Things were running relatively fine. If map vote was being misused then just turn it off and leave everything else as is.


There was no fixing needed! We had a big community vote last year which approved removing map-vote and map-timer. A decent majority of the community approved this change. But the dear-leader(RUS-Warrior) was not happy with the community's approval so after a few smoothly running months he initiated a second vote to bring back map-vote among other previous settings. Again the majority voted to keep the map-vote off but the dear-leader chose to exclude votes from inactive players and unilaterally brought map-vote back. Thankfully, he didn't reactivate the timer. Unfortunately the dreaded timer is back.


A Holes:

• Players (and admins) who constantly want to play one or few of their favorite maps over others
• Players (and admins) who rage-quit after complaining and cursing when their non-favorite maps are running
• Players (and admins) who insult the majority of other players after their constant map-vote spamming to change to his/her favorite map failed
• Players (and admins) who insult the majority of other players after majority of players vote to change the map from this player's favorite map to a non-favorite map.
• Players (and admins) who just want to keep going back to a recently played map by spamming map-voting, ruining the map order and preventing other future players (who join server later) from playing maps that were next in order
• Players (and admins) who have no patience to play on other maps besides their favorite maps

On a positive note, I am glad that these changes are at least going through a public vote, although some of these votes are unfairly lobbied by admins on social media to favor a certain outcome.

Nice swipe at the players and admins who have worked hard to keep the server going @x4|Al Gore but you left 1 off of your A Hole list.

Players (and ex admins) who constantly abuse the map voting system before the majority of players have loaded into the map.

 

[silvia]

Ahora con mas razon.. la votacion de mapas tiene que estar . el limite de tiempo es una mala idea ,tanto para mapas buenos como para los malos .
Si juegas un mapa bueno cuando se cumple el tiempo te termina el mapa.
si estas jugando un mapa malo te tienes que tragar los 25 35 45 55 minutos que pongas. tremendamente divertido si juegas 2-4-6 personas
Y LAS 2-4-6 PERSONAS QUIEREN JUGAR OTRO MAPA
Y si fuera un mapa dices vale me espero .... PERO SI TE TIENES QUE TRAGAR 4 MAPAS .....PREFIERO PARAR TRENES CON LA CABEZA .
El limite de tiempo es en si una perdida de tiempo No soluciona el problema lo agraba ..porque si aumentas el tiempo para un mapa bueno .recuerda que lo sufres en los mapas malos .
Y quitar la votacion de mapa con el limite de tiempo puesto seria para pegarse un tiro ya .
Votar el mapa es una SOLUCION para los mapas malos .
El limite de tiempo ¿que solucion da? acortar mapas buenos donde todo el mundo se divierte . y Alargar mapas malos y que la la gente se va del juego.
Esto es como una pelicula....opcion 1 poder votar cual quieres ir a ver , y si no te gusta irte a ver otra .
opcion 2 entrar a ver la pelicula que haya y si no te gusta quedarte porque no te dejan salir hasta que acabe .
Que opcion te gusta para este cine

 

[silvia]

Agujeros A:

• Jugadores (y administradores) que constantemente quieren jugar uno o algunos de sus mapas favoritos sobre otros
• Jugadores (y administradores) que abandonan la rabia después de quejarse y maldecir cuando se ejecutan sus mapas no favoritos
• Jugadores (y administradores) que insultan a la mayoría de los otros jugadores después de que fallaran sus constantes mensajes de spam en el mapa para cambiar a su mapa favorito.
• Jugadores (y administradores) que insulten a la mayoría de los otros jugadores después de que la mayoría de los jugadores voten para cambiar el mapa del mapa favorito de este jugador a un mapa no favorito.
• Jugadores (y administradores) que solo quieren seguir volviendo a un mapa jugado recientemente enviando mensajes no deseados en el mapa, arruinando el orden del mapa y evitando que otros jugadores futuros (que se unan al servidor más tarde) jueguen a los siguientes mapas
• Jugadores (y administradores) que no tienen paciencia para jugar en otros mapas además de sus mapas favoritos

En una nota positiva, me alegro de que estos cambios al menos estén pasando por una votación pública, aunque algunos de estos votos son presionados injustamente por los administradores en las redes sociales para favorecer un resultado determinado.

Cierto x4..... ya me di cuenta hace tiempo ... desde el punto 1 hasta el ultimo . suscribo todas las palabras.
Hacer comentarios criticando y huir del juego ,para no recibir la respuesta .Que lo haga un jugador esta mal pero un administrador esta peor ..luego le respondes de igual y eres la mala . Y eso no es asi

The community votes to approve a change and then those changes are made void

TOTALMENTE CIERTO aquella vez se voto .. y como no se voto lo que queria esa persona ...los votos no valian , o valian pero los otros votos valian doble , o valian lo mismo pero el que los conto era un bebe que iva ala guarderia .
VAMOS QUE HIZO LO QUE LE DIO LA GANA Y LO VENDIO COMO QUE TODO FUE LEGAL.
Ahora votamos otra vez , entonces la pregunta es.. las personas que votaron la opcion que no se acepto.. pueden pedir otra votacion no? o solo se va a votar hasta que la parte contratante optenga en el resultado deseado?
(((((((((((((( Lo digo al margen del resultado que salga ... si es SI o si es No da igual )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

VOTO .... hacer estas votaciones con limite de tiempo como en el juego y desactivar la votacion como en el juego ???

 

[silvia]

Buen golpe a los jugadores y administradores que han trabajado duro para mantener el servidor en funcionamiento

Pues todo lo que dice es cierto ..yo tambien me di cuenta ..y x4 recuerdo que ayudo aportando ideas tantas o mas que otros .

 

[Pinky]

If it is allowed and used by many, it is not a banable offense even thou it is aggravating as heck. Today I was getting "180 seconds" or something like that after a failed vote and trying to vote another map. Obviously someone did something to slow down the votes. BTW, it had been a lot longer than 180 secs. Not sure what is up with that.

First off, there is a 3 minute waiting period between map votes. As I understand it, this time frame cannot be changed. Perhaps finding a programmer who could change this to 15 minutes would help.

If the admins were able to ascertain who is spamming the map votes, then they could have a rule about spamming map votes. With such a rule, they could punish the players who are doing this stuff.

 

[Pinky]

There was no fixing needed! We had a big community vote last year which approved removing map-vote and map-timer. A decent majority of the community approved this change. But the dear-leader(RUS-Warrior) was not happy with the community's approval so after a few smoothly running months he initiated a second vote to bring back map-vote among other previous settings. Again the majority voted to keep the map-vote off but the dear-leader chose to exclude votes from inactive players and unilaterally brought map-vote back. Thankfully, he didn't reactivate the timer. Unfortunately the dreaded timer is back.

The question is, what is the problem? Map vote spamming. That's the problem. The ability of one or more players to start a map vote every freaking 3 minutes.

The 2nd problem is that when the disruptive a-holes start map votes over and over, there is currently no way to identify who is doing it. HELLO can't have a rule to not spam map voting because they wouldn't know who to punish for a violation. My suggestion is that we look for a programmer who might be able to fix this issue so that the game logs would display who is spamming.

As for the voting on these things here Al, keep in mind that a player who might play once a month gets the same vote that I get or Nagi would get or Vmax. Guys who are on the server on a regular basis, they get one vote. So does the player who doesn't play but is a member here.

If I am playing during the week with a few other players, we need map vote turned on. Turn it off on the weekends and watch what happens. You are going to get to Fall of Saigon and the server will empty.

 

[IceSkater]

I had a long reply drafted up but I decided to delete it.

The timer has had an unintended result as mentioned by DaddyO:

If it is allowed and used by many, it is not a banable offense even thou it is aggravating as heck. Today I was getting "180 seconds" or something like that after a failed vote and trying to vote another map. Obviously someone did something to slow down the votes. BTW, it had been a lot longer than 180 secs. Not sure what is up with that.

This "buffer" for time between map voting appears to have popped up after the timer was enabled. There is legit no setting for this anywhere inside any configuration file, thus it must be hard coded into the game.

Because I'm no programmer who can deal with actual game code, I'm going to keep things as they are until the weekend. Give this poll more time to marinate with the community and see if anyone has a change of viewpoint.

For now I have upped the time limit to 45min, if it's a big map with little players they can always map vote themselves out of it.

I will say one thing, Al - I'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to Admin's in general as a holes. You know quite well how much time some of them spend in-game. You were once one of them until you upped and left. Surely you can understand there comes a time with ones tenure here, where you get frustrated with the complaints etc. This is a place for people to vent too, but if it goes against the guidelines for Admins - something you should still remember - then please report them instead of posting a half baked, complaint laced, post about "admins" in general. I'll leave the link here: https://forum.helloclan.eu/staff/report

Also, @silvia I am glad to see you never followed through with your threat of leaving because we / I unbanned certain people. It seems they weren't as much trouble as you painted them to be.



Regards,
Ice

 

[DaddyO]

I had a long reply drafted up but I decided to delete it.

The timer has had an unintended result as mentioned by DaddyO:


This "buffer" for time between map voting appears to have popped up after the timer was enabled. There is legit no setting for this anywhere inside any configuration file, thus it must be hard coded into the game.

Because I'm no programmer who can deal with actual game code, I'm going to keep things as they are until the weekend. Give this poll more time to marinate with the community and see if anyone has a change of viewpoint.

For now I have upped the time limit to 45min, if it's a big map with little players they can always map vote themselves out of it.

I will say one thing, Al - I'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to Admin's in general as a holes. You know quite well how much time some of them spend in-game. You were once one of them until you upped and left. Surely you can understand there comes a time with ones tenure here, where you get frustrated with the complaints etc. This is a place for people to vent too, but if it goes against the guidelines for Admins - something you should still remember - then please report them instead of posting a half baked, complaint laced, post about "admins" in general. I'll leave the link here: https://forum.helloclan.eu/staff/report

Also, @silvia I am glad to see you never followed through with your threat of leaving because we / I unbanned certain people. It seems they weren't as much trouble as you painted them to be.



Regards,
Ice

BTW, I played yesterday (Sunday in Dallas, Tx, lol) and the 35m time limit was fine. I thought that was a great compromise. I can live with 45 also for now and see how that goes. Thank you for all your hard work on this.

Also I am fine with the 180 sec buffer between votes. It just surprised me as I don't ask for a vote often. Maybe this is a good compromise also.

 

[silvia]

Also, @silvia I am glad to see you never followed through with your threat of leaving because we / I unbanned certain people. It seems they weren't as much trouble as you painted them to be.

Gracias ...no se si llamarte ice o iceskater..ya que esa conversacion fue privada. Recuerdas?
No voy a responderte como deberia. Para no hablar de una conversacion privada. Me pareceria sucio . Y por respeto a una persona que me ayudo .
No fueron tan problematicos como pintaba? Cuando quieras repasamos los mensajes y vemos si reconoces tus palabras .
Me parece genial tu defensa de vmax,......., No te dejes presionar .
Sinceramente y mas con la indirecta que va tu mensaje por vmax .. dudo que te alegres que no dejara de jugar ..
Es mas creo que te molesta que juegue.

It seems they weren't as much trouble as you painted them to be.

La respuesta la tienes en los mensajes privados .
"EL PERRO... NACE ,CRECE Y MUERE PERRO , NO SE HACE OVEJA "

 

[htn]

BTW, I played yesterday (Sunday in Dallas, Tx, lol) and the 35m time limit was fine. I thought that was a great compromise. I can live with 45 also for now and see how that goes. Thank you for all your hard work on this.

Also I am fine with the 180 sec buffer between votes. It just surprised me as I don't ask for a vote often. Maybe this is a good compromise also.

Yeah agree. 45 is okay...but anything longer than that is not a limit at all...45 min for one round is quite long.

 

[IceSkater]

@silvia I've not discussed our actual conversation.

But it is genuinely nice to see you are still around, and no, it does not bother me that you still play.

Yeah agree. 45 is okay...but anything longer than that is not a limit at all...45 min for one round is quite long.

Let's see how it pans out.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

I will say one thing, Al - I'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to Admin's in general as a holes. You know quite well how much time some of them spend in-game.

No disrespect intended for you Ice, and all our esteemed admins. But I am sure you are aware which particular admin is uncomfortable with some maps. That being said, I am sure this new timer setting will hopefully go away soon, as did the removal of maps during weekdays. Player numbers, player retention, and overall game play hours will speak for themselves. All the hard work and time given by all admins is always appreciated and valued. Been there, done that! Thanks!

 

[Pinky]

No disrespect intended for you Ice, and all our esteemed admins. But I am sure you are aware which particular admin is uncomfortable with some maps. That being said, I am sure this new timer setting will hopefully go away soon, as did the removal of maps during weekdays. Player numbers, player retention, and overall game play hours will speak for themselves. All the hard work and time given by all admins is always appreciated and valued. Been there, done that! Thanks!

Al, I'm no admin and some, I am sure, consider me an A-hole, but I also dislike several maps. I have played quite a bit lately and I have yet to play La Drang or Fall of Saigon, both of which I dislike with less than 40 players on the server. There are other maps I don't like with few players. If the server is full, I love all maps.

The admins I know all work really hard. It is not an easy job. It's easy to be offended and offensive. I have said many times, if we all met up at a bar, we would all be friends. Let's try to be supportive of the admins. It is a thankless, unpaid job.

pinky

 

[Vmax]

If mapvote is removed then A good alternative for guys like me is to install BF1942 and help out the clan by boosting(Populating) our server while the maps that we dont enjoy are playing out. I have been doing this for a few days and its quite rewarding.

Edited to remove the negative aspect of my post.

 

[Pinky]

If mapvote is removed then A good alternative for guys like me is to install BF1942 and help out the clan by boosting(Populating) our server while the maps that we dont enjoy are playing out. I have been doing this for a few days and its quite rewarding.

Edited to remove the negative aspect of my post.

I have 1942 installed. Just don't know much about it... or anything else for that matter.

 

[DaddyO]

@silvia I've not discussed our actual conversation.

But it is genuinely nice to see you are still around, and no, it does not bother me that you still play.



Let's see how it pans out.

After playing this weekend with a moderate size group and now weekdays this week with 6-8 players, I can say that I feel 45 min. is too much time. Some bigger maps really drag out. I would vote for 35 min as being the best compromise between weekends and weekdays.

 

[Vmax]

At the moment, according to the poll, map vote will be removed and a time limit to maps installed.
Having a long time limit like we have now is basically no limit at all so I would like to see 30 minutes per map.

If you havent voted or are on the fence then you had better have your say

 

[DaddyO]

At the moment, according to the poll, map vote will be removed and a time limit to maps installed.
Having a long time limit like we have now is basically no limit at all so I would like to see 30 minutes per map.

If you havent voted or are on the fence then you had better have your say

I agree with Vmax about the time being a bit long.

Obviously I do not speak for anyone but myself. When the player count is low there are just some maps that are too large to sustain any interesting level of play, imo. Without the hope of a vote to change them (and often in these cases the vote is successful), I personally will drop off. Often when the player count is low, one or two dropping off kills any remaining fun for everyone else. Like most, the constant map vote is also bothersome, but I accept it to some degree as part and parcel of the freedom to choose. The 180s limit between votes has (again, imo) slowed it down to acceptable levels. But LMK if I can vote again, after all, that seems to now be a U.S. tradition. ?

I know it can't be done (I guess) but it would be nice if instead of weekday/weekend map rotation changes, that it might be better if the map rotation adjusts to the number of online players. So, for instance, >12 players = expanded map rotation.

Thanks again for all the work and consideration on this challenging topic.