- Local time
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- Joined
- Jan 6, 2021
- Messages
- 1,548
- Reaction score
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- Age
- 27
- Location
- South Africa
- Real Name
- Shaun
Hmm. Okay;
As per the mod events being hosted on the main server, it was not ignored. Please use better terminology. I argued against it yes but I didn't leave you on read. There is a big difference between being ignored and not being in favor of. And as you have seen, I in fact apologized to you for doing so.
However, if you feel there is an Admin going on a power trip, you know where to report them.
The leadership timeline:
SK as the HelloClan Leader.
Myself as the second clan leader.
SK sort of left and I became the sole clan leader.
I left and Vmax became the BFV leader (until a full clan leader was decided on).
Vmax resigned.
RussWarrior was installed as the clan leader.
Russ was on the path of leaving.
I came back.
I installed LuccaWulf as a BF1942 Leader during the games infancy with us.
Lucca was...complicated with times so he was removed (are you referring to him?).
BangBangOw installed as the BF1942 leader and then became a HelloClan Leader alongside myself.
Gerhard was installed as a leader for a brief time because of RS2V but it didn't last. (or are you referring to him?).
Heilig was installed as HelloClan leader alongside Bang & myself.
Did I forget someone?
Also sidenote; there are three TRUSTED leaders so that should something happen there will always be two available to assist.
If you think we (leadership and staff that voted the admin in question in) would do so without ensuring the persons credibility, you are mistaken my friend. If you (or anyone) has such proof, come forward. Otherwise, cease this attack on him.
If this was a company, with a hierarchy that has so much red tape, then all your points would be 100% acceptable. But this is a gaming community, we vote staff in based on their actions and activity, we account for what they say and do. If they go out of line or break their guidelines then action is taken (again, you know this is true).
Just to dissect a few specific lines from your above quoted text:
Al, every single admin that has been removed has been for good reason. Obviously, we have never nor will never publish the reasoning as to why someone was removed. Unless it was...somehow a special circumstance where it became public. When an Admin is reported, I'm not going to tell you what I did to them, but they most likely get a warning, or a course correction if it isn't serious. There has been at least three admins during my time that were giving many chances via course corrections and a warning each until it was clear they weren't going to change. Unfortunately I have been proven to be too lenient.
Point of this is that there already is a basis for players to use to come to the leadership and lodge an official complaint against a member of staff. We are not closed ear about it, we do investigate it when things are reported and we take appropriate action thereon. If the complaint has gravity to it.
I'm sorry but this is double standards Al. Why can't they complain? They are also players, they aren't paid to just sit there and watch people. They're here to play and help at the same time in their own free time. They have to hear others complain about the maps, the map rotation, how long maps drag out. Why can't they do it? Why do they have to listen to "spoil sports constantly complaining about stuff in general" yet they can't be allowed to voice their own opinions?
Going back again to your overall request, I'm sorry but I will not ask the staff to be robots. I will not ask them to remove their personalities, their traits and just "exist" there on the server. It's not on. The guidelines we have is what is expected of staff, if it is broken then there is obvious "reprimands" that occur. I'm not going to setup such a stringent system that staff eventually become afraid of being staff as a result. It is, in the best possible terms, overkill in this environment.
There has been a removal/resignation already as a result of one of your reports. I would think that alone sufficient proof that action is taken and that should put to bed any doubts about the channels not working in the players favor.
Ending on this;
The above is our current PUBLIC staff guidelines. Although it may not contain what you exactly want stipulated it in it, it is quite comprehensive. If you want such a detailed staff guideline section or rule section, please go visit hellominers and see what they have. They'll put lawyers to shame. I kid you not.
Regards,
Ice
I'd like to just remind you Al that, as per your reprisal directed at me a few times, we eventually settled on what is currently going on. You had often voiced an understandable disdain towards my then attempts at finding a good neutral ground by having polls, requesting players vote etc. etc. on stuff that was going to affect gameplay often times repeated to try a different outcome and see if the result was any different. Now that all that has basically stopped, I'd like to think we have found mutual ground again.There were other suggestions from me that also made it through (by other means) such as players getting to play all maps. Before that, the static map order prevented players to get to a few maps at the bottom of the static map order for months. The removal of mapvote which was being misused. Running mod events on the regular server which was first ignored but then recognized and accepted.
As per the mod events being hosted on the main server, it was not ignored. Please use better terminology. I argued against it yes but I didn't leave you on read. There is a big difference between being ignored and not being in favor of. And as you have seen, I in fact apologized to you for doing so.
Our AFK rule has been amended slightly over the year(s). I do not say it's perfect, but I say it's close as it can be. Our requirements for being AFK that are stipulated in the rules are as clear as can be. In the sense that the person is in fact 100% AFK.I do remain a bit disappointed that my suggestion for a rule for admins not to kick AFK players when an AFK player does not effect team balance, or the game, didn't go through. My suggestion was because I had noticed (at that time and occasionaly even now) that some trial admins become trigger happy kick AFK players unnecessarily just because they have the power to do so.
However, if you feel there is an Admin going on a power trip, you know where to report them.
You are indeed correct and I can tell you all of those times were quite justified because of their own actions despite warnings or course corrections from myself or Heilig at the time. We try fix before such action has to happen.We would be naive to think that ALL admins have landed from heaven and would never misuse the power they have been entrusted with. I am sure you and other senior admins remember that not all new and old admins are made of responsible, ethical, and good moral character. We have seen trial and full-time admins removed due to misconduct, behavioral issues, cheating/hacking, etc.
Where was this? Was this before my time?Heck, even a clan leader admin had to be removed.
The leadership timeline:
SK as the HelloClan Leader.
Myself as the second clan leader.
SK sort of left and I became the sole clan leader.
I left and Vmax became the BFV leader (until a full clan leader was decided on).
Vmax resigned.
RussWarrior was installed as the clan leader.
Russ was on the path of leaving.
I came back.
I installed LuccaWulf as a BF1942 Leader during the games infancy with us.
Lucca was...complicated with times so he was removed (are you referring to him?).
BangBangOw installed as the BF1942 leader and then became a HelloClan Leader alongside myself.
Gerhard was installed as a leader for a brief time because of RS2V but it didn't last. (or are you referring to him?).
Heilig was installed as HelloClan leader alongside Bang & myself.
Did I forget someone?
Also sidenote; there are three TRUSTED leaders so that should something happen there will always be two available to assist.
Even though you've stated it, bring proof, you know where to report it. This will be the last time I entertain such a remark to someone who is in fact proving themselves capable in the position. I say that as it is.I have even seen an admin using game hacks. Of course we cannot prove it and he knows this.
If you think we (leadership and staff that voted the admin in question in) would do so without ensuring the persons credibility, you are mistaken my friend. If you (or anyone) has such proof, come forward. Otherwise, cease this attack on him.
I'm sorry Al, but that's not going to happen. We are not paid for this, I'm not going to send future admins (or current ones) on a course of ethics. As professional as we try to be, there is still room for error and I do allow for that at times. But if you or anyone feels like there is unfairness happening, you are most welcome to report it. If it has gravity, it will be dealt with and you know this.An updated guideline is needed for admins conduct especially for kicking AFK players, taking votes to manually change maps, not being a spoiled-sport by constantly complaining about certain maps that the individual admin doesn't like, not spamming game chat by constantly asking all players to vote to change map even after most players have already decided not to change the current map, not isolating or questioning or singling out one particular player constantly, absolutely prohibit admins to use game-hacks, and be advised to watch a few YouTube videos about how to be responsible, how to be neutral, and how to be ethical. Such published guidelines give players a channel to complain to senior admins, and reprimand admins who misuse or not use their responsibility. If such a code of conduct was published and implemented for admins, we may not have seen the fiasco of some admins removed in recent years.
If this was a company, with a hierarchy that has so much red tape, then all your points would be 100% acceptable. But this is a gaming community, we vote staff in based on their actions and activity, we account for what they say and do. If they go out of line or break their guidelines then action is taken (again, you know this is true).
Just to dissect a few specific lines from your above quoted text:
Considering that the admin(s) I believe you are referring to, I believe that goes back to what I just said above. They are just as much on the receiving end of it as well and as such they are showing restraint.not isolating or questioning or singling out one particular player constantly,
Although I have somewhat answered this;Such published guidelines give players a channel to complain to senior admins, and reprimand admins who misuse or not use their responsibility. If such a code of conduct was published and implemented for admins, we may not have seen the fiasco of some admins removed in recent years.
Al, every single admin that has been removed has been for good reason. Obviously, we have never nor will never publish the reasoning as to why someone was removed. Unless it was...somehow a special circumstance where it became public. When an Admin is reported, I'm not going to tell you what I did to them, but they most likely get a warning, or a course correction if it isn't serious. There has been at least three admins during my time that were giving many chances via course corrections and a warning each until it was clear they weren't going to change. Unfortunately I have been proven to be too lenient.
Point of this is that there already is a basis for players to use to come to the leadership and lodge an official complaint against a member of staff. We are not closed ear about it, we do investigate it when things are reported and we take appropriate action thereon. If the complaint has gravity to it.
Again going back to complaints;not being a spoiled-sport by constantly complaining about certain maps that the individual admin doesn't like
I'm sorry but this is double standards Al. Why can't they complain? They are also players, they aren't paid to just sit there and watch people. They're here to play and help at the same time in their own free time. They have to hear others complain about the maps, the map rotation, how long maps drag out. Why can't they do it? Why do they have to listen to "spoil sports constantly complaining about stuff in general" yet they can't be allowed to voice their own opinions?
Going back again to your overall request, I'm sorry but I will not ask the staff to be robots. I will not ask them to remove their personalities, their traits and just "exist" there on the server. It's not on. The guidelines we have is what is expected of staff, if it is broken then there is obvious "reprimands" that occur. I'm not going to setup such a stringent system that staff eventually become afraid of being staff as a result. It is, in the best possible terms, overkill in this environment.
There has been a removal/resignation already as a result of one of your reports. I would think that alone sufficient proof that action is taken and that should put to bed any doubts about the channels not working in the players favor.
Ending on this;
HelloClan Staff Guidelines
Forward In an effort to make clear what is expected of HelloClan staff, we have their agreed guidelines made public here. This details what information they have access to and or where they may have access to said information. Because this is...
forum.helloclan.eu
Regards,
Ice