Ban Appeal

[vietminh]

The purpose of this essay is to discuss the phenomenon of Ban Appeal. I will first begin by defining Ban Appeal and then move onto why I, Vietminh, have it. I will then conclude with the condition under which I will return.

Mary and Websters dictionary defines Ban Appeal as "the quality of being unbanned in a sexual way" or "personal appeal or physical attractiveness especially by players of the Hello Clan Server". In the case of the first definition there is nothing else that needs to be said, I am inclined to submit to your desires and allow you to unban me. In the second case I believe I can make a strong argument that you have these urges for my return with a few examples.

I will begin with Iceskater whom I know believes I have strong Ban Appeal. On many occasions he has indicated that he is willing to unban people who are willing to contribute in a positive manner and I am willing to do this. Moving onto Roboduck, though I have played hard to get with him in the past I know he is very fond of my pancake gun and that he would surely welcome a return of my syrupy surprise on his deceased corpse. Lastly, Pinky, I know of all those mentioned he has the most reason to not want me unbanned but I also know that of all those here he can surely appreciate the concept of "the more the merrier".

In conclusion I would like to state that I am willing to return with a minimal of conditions, only one in fact, I want Iceskater to do his best attempt at a southern country accent on Teamspeak. Upon hearing this I will be willing to return to the server.

 

[HoloDuke]

Hi Vietminh,

I would encourage you to consider 2 things:

1) Directly addressing Hard_Rice in your request
2) Rewriting your request without humor

 

[vietminh]

Hi Sellout,

1) You are right. Hard_Rice - I was gunning for a ban because I wanted to use ridiculous behaviour to address the absurdity of the rule system that was in place. To make that point I targeted you because I knew that as an unseasoned admin you would be more likely to crack under the pressure I put on you. I apologize for doing that, it was wrong, and I suspect you won't care but I don't hold any grudge against you banning me outside the rules because as I said - my goal was to get banned.

2) Too late for that, but I also sent a serious request to Iceskater. For those who knew me best I believe they would not mistake my comedy for a lack of sincerity.

 

[Capt. Canada]

Soooo...you wanted a ban and got one, and now you are unhappy that you're banned? There is a certain self-imposed hypocrisy there. I know the admins ban practically no one unless the discretions are especially egregious, so you must not have tiptoed around the line but strode confidently over it.

I'm almost a year removed from the server, so my opinion means absolutely nothing. This also makes my opinion far more objective, and I have to say I don't sense a whole lot of contrition in your tone.

Good luck with your appeal though. I hope you get back to playing soon. It can be a wonderful game with lots of great people, but you have to respect and appreciate the game and the server.

 

[vietminh]

Soooo...you wanted a ban and got one, and now you are unhappy that you're banned? There is a certain self-imposed hypocrisy there. I know the admins ban practically no one unless the discretions are especially egregious, so you must not have tiptoed around the line but strode confidently over it.

I'm almost a year removed from the server, so my opinion means absolutely nothing. This also makes my opinion far more objective, and I have to say I don't sense a whole lot of contrition in your tone.

Good luck with your appeal though. I hope you get back to playing soon. It can be a wonderful game with lots of great people, but you have to respect and appreciate the game and the server.

There's way too many things to put in context here, if you want to read-over my ban thread from a year and a bit ago I think that would explain it better than I can. However, that's also probably a waste of your own time if you're not playing so I wouldn't blame you for not digging through it.

As for contrition - I issued apologies to all involved last year after my ban was in place and now to Hard_Rice as well.

Anyhow, thank you!

 

[vietminh]

Okay so jokes aside, because the jokes clearly didn't land, I will make a serious post:

Let me first start by explaining that I am not going to offer a big apology for my past actions because I don't believe that really matters at this point. The way I look at it is: after almost a year and a half, those who are still going to hold a low opinion of me will continue to do so, those who are neutral are neutral, those I've already apologized to have either accepted it or not, those willing to give me a second chance will do so, and those who are going to chime in one way or the other will chime in. There really isn't much I can say to change these things one way or the other.

All that matters is this: If you unban me I will play and I will follow the server rules when doing so. Most importantly, I won't do what I did before again. I can offer you my assurance of that, but again, what that is worth depends on which of the above categories you fall into - but I can offer some evidence in my favour in that I have served my ban without evasion and I haven't fucked with the server like everyone's favourite people have.

 

[Capt. Canada]

Well, I sort of remembered it anyway. I tend to have a rather acute memory, but I decided to look back through the logs anyway. I remember your ban, and it was well-earned. You got what you wanted and what you deserved.

Again, good luck. You were liked by some good players and good people who implored you to cease your abuses.

 

[hard_rice]

You wanted a ban and were given a ban. I'd say find a way to be happy with that.

To quote my friend Loyde, "Don't go away mad just go away."

hard_rice

 

[Vmax]

You wanted a ban and were given a ban. I'd say find a way to be happy with that.

To quote my friend Loyde, "Don't go away mad just go away."

hard_rice

Like my friend Ricey says "Just go away."

 

[El Alamein]

*shrugs* You've got your work cut out for you, mate.

~The Deadliest Warrior

 

[vietminh]

Thank you for the reply Iceskater, I'm glad you appreciated my attempt to break the Ice - ha, see I can make terrible jokes too.

My memory of those events is vivid but I have forgotten the particulars, I thought it was hard_rice that banned me but you reminded me it was you. I targeted you as well and I will take the opportunity here to apologize for that, of all the people I acting poorly towards I regret yours the most because there is simply no world in which you deserved or needed that. You've always been on the front lines as an admin and the most diligent and active as I recall.

You added some additional context that I will address, I did choose a terrible time to do what I did, I recall I started shortly after Hash got more active again.That wasn't something I considered at the time, not that it ever would have been an acceptable time, but you get what I mean.

I'll make my final and I suppose actual appeal by saying this, which I alluded to in a previous post and PMs:

I did not come here with a big heartfelt apology because I don't for one second think that the people I essentially backstabbed would believe it was sincere. Even after a big passage of time you can't go from being a complete dick to offering a complete apology and be credible - especially when you didn't really have a real reason for what you did in the first place.

The way I see it is, for something like this words can't undo words. But if you unban me I can prove through actions that I won't do what I did again.

It's a chance you can take or not take, but given that I'm not a hacker and that I served my ban without evasion (which is rare as I understand it), and that any reoffence would be completely obvious (again, not a hacker or cheater) I think it's a small risk to take.

That is unless one genuinely believes that my offences are worth a perma ban as pure punishment. But as far as I'm aware that's only been reserved for two other people that we all know, can you honestly say what I did was on the level of what they did?

If you unban me I will be no less than fully committed to following the rules, it's completely fair to question my character but I don't think anyone can honestly question my follow through once I commit to a cause...

 

[RoBoDuCk]

I will say this Vietminh. We are very much alike (I wouldn't be surprised if you were insulted by this comparison haha) I DO understand your humor and maybe its a bad reflection on me, but your jokes DO land.

From my point of view the most salient points against you are these.

1. You opened a bunch of doubt in peoples minds as to whether you were in communication with BH (him who we will not name) Even now I wonder if you still talk. That guy makes me want to barf and you deliberately wanted us to think you were in league with him. Its hard for us to ever know if you are or are not still. All we have is your word.

2. You proved how far you would go to make a point. Did it stop after your ban, or is this all STILL just part of your game? See you harrassed us so far that we don't even know if you are done.

3. As you say yourself, there is no way we can judge your sincerity. And thats not just you, its the nature of communicting over the internet where facial expressions and emotions and tonality cannot be judged. If you were to return you HAVE to see from our point of view its like rolling the dice.


I don't know why, but despite this all I still like you allot. Not assuming the feeling is mutual but I'm telling the truth from my end. Banning you made me really sad. I truly enjoyed being on TS with all you and all the gents and, laughing and joking it up. I always appreciated your wit. Also what some may not know is before this whole incident you DID play with honor and follow the rules. Your lily white play-style actually reminded me of Hellsfury.

So yeah, id roll the dice and let you back in if it were solely up to me, but don't think I'm a fool either. I don't fully trust you anymore. And remember you designed your little games in order to mind f*ck us in more ways than one. so yeah. That's your own doing.

What I DO NOT want you to think is this. If you are ever let back in, and its really not up to me. It has NOTHING to do with declining server numbers. Remember when a poll was taken on whether people would rather let the game end for ever or play with hash. People overwhelmingly voted to let the game burn rather than play with a psycho. If anyone chooses to forgive you, it will be because they roll the dice just like me and believe there are redeeming qualities to you that could outweigh the bad. AKA you are not completely corrupt. And frankly even if you were let back in, id bet people would be ready to perma ban you if they heard you sneeze wrong. And you'd deserve that too.

 

[vietminh]

Dear Roboduck aka Froyo Baggins,

I am deeply insulted by your comparison and I hereby withdraw my request to be unbanned - jk lol.

I'll address your points:

1) I explained this to SK in a detailed letter back after the ban had been handed down, you can check w/ him for it but I will also PM you on this and you can feel free to share it with the admins.

2) I totally get you on this, I mean I myself said in my previous post that when I am fully committed to a cause then I am fully committed. For further info see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q

I think in the end this comes down to the fact that I will be on a very short leash, so if I did anything wrong then that will be that.

3) Again I understand what you mean. Like I said before, the people who are going to give me a second chance will and those who won't won't. I'm under no illusions there, there will be a healthy and well earned aura of skepticism and I will have to constantly prove myself for a long time. I mean, such that I even get to play because the numbers sound pretty bleak by the way you're talking...

Lastly, again I am deeply insulted by your statements - jk lol. I miss the good times too and I'm on the same page! I understand that any unban wouldn't be about the dwindling numbers, I get your sentiment and I would (and do) feel the exact same.

 

[RoBoDuCk]

Well, I appreciate your candor and your attempt to make things right. As I cannot judge your true intentions all I can do is give you the benefit of the doubt. I for one believe you should have another chance and I don't feel the need to cloak that intention. You were and are my friend and just like our dear leader here in the US, I would like to Make BFV Great again! #MBFVGA! And I believe that if you are not causing trouble, your return would do just that.

Now. Like I said before its not up to me, so while you can count on my vote, its an uphill battle for you and rightly so... I won't appologise for you, nor will I petition on your behalf, that's your job. Good luck buddy. I hope you return, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you!

 

[vietminh]

Well, I appreciate your candor and your attempt to make things right. As I cannot judge your true intentions all I can do is give you the benefit of the doubt. I for one believe you should have another chance and I don't feel the need to cloak that intention. You were and are my friend and just like our dear leader here in the US, I would like to Make BFV Great again! #MBFVGA! And I believe that if you are not causing trouble, your return would do just that.

Now. Like I said before its not up to me, so while you can count on my vote, its an uphill battle for you and rightly so... I won't appologise for you, nor will I petition on your behalf, that's your job. Good luck buddy. I hope you return, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you!

Thanks Robo, if all that comes of this is knowing that bygones are bygones and good memories are cherished with people like you and Iceskater then I will be satisfied with that result.

I can't ask for or expect a lot here but I do appreciate you letting your support be known and making the point of saying that before the poor decision I made (if I can call it that) that I was a rule abiding player who made a positive contribution to the server and community.

I am sure to all the newer admins, the ones that came in around and after the time of the incident I am just "that guy" in the same way the two people who shall go unnamed are. I recall that when I got on TS I got a very thorough explanation of those two individuals when they hadn't been active in their shit disturbing for some time so I imagine that's how it went - I'm not 'Vietminh the good guy who went apeshit for no apparent reason' I'm 'Vietminh the infamous asshole, a member of the select few who was permanently banned'.

I don't know quite where I'm going with this, I don't want to be seen to be pleading (and this goes all the way back to The Deadliest Warriors comment). That's not because of ego it's because a plea is the easiest thing in the world to reject, kids plead, exes plead - when you've already made up your mind that's it unless something has changed (more on that below). I also don't wanna seem like a salesman either because that WOULD make it seem like this is just part of some ploy.

All I can really do is offer an explanation of why I did what I did because that's something that wasn't really made clear to anyone publicly (I explained it to SK in a private message after the ban). I was unhappy with the way the administration was handling serial bad apples like Abel, I thought they should just be permanently banned and that the swamp should be drained so to speak. I thought the rules were both too lenient and too complex and that admins should have more discretion to dispense summary justice. Lastly, I thought that by acting the way I did I would put the absurdities of the rules on display and bring about a change.

In the end I discovered that this was a fundamentally flawed approach, both because the rules work so well against someone acting like I did and because they serve as a check and balance against the individual, arbitrary whims of admins - even Iceskater who is the most dedicated, diligent, rule abiding, fair minded, straight up good guy admin of them all (sorry everyone else, but it's true) broke with the rules in issuing my ban...that was an eye opener. I don't blame him for this and again I am not saying my ban was unjust because of it, but that single event made me realize how important the rules are for everyone.

So, if you're wondering what's changed it's that - I realized the flaw in my reasoning, I realized the stupidity of my actions, I realized that my assumptions were wrong, and I realized that things are as they are for good reasons. I regret that it took what it did to get me to realize that, that's my issue, and if you want to keep my permanently banned for that reason then I have no recourse but to accept your judgment. But the ban is not serving to make that point - I figured that out all by myself a year ago after some reflection and discussion with SK - so really keeping it in place can only serve to spare to the community a potential shitstorm or to punish me.

I would hope that after my thorough explanation you can understand that I'm not just sitting here waiting to be a dick again. As for punishment, if that's your motivation then all I can do is shrug my shoulders and say that that's plain silly. Punishment for punishments sake is an emotional and useless reaction, it's not a worthy sentiment for an adult mind.

In closing, I will say it again and I won't mince words because that isn't my style. The two other people who have been permanently banned are banned for very, very, VERY, (VERY VERY VERY) fucking serious reasons. One person hacked and then attacked the server trying to destroy the ability of all other people to play. The other hacked, got a ban, and then started attacking people's actual real life - which is even more serious than a DOS in my book.

So if you are sitting there and thinking that what I did rises to that level then all I can do is shake my head. But even in doing that, I'll still respect your choice and abide by it - which is far more than both those two and a great many other people who aren't permanently banned can say.

 

[vietminh]

Thank you Shaun, I appreciate the opportunity and I look forward to proving myself worthy of your generosity and the trust you've placed in me.

 

[Alphascout]

Solved. Closed.