Another suggestion

[TonyB]

It's no secret that when you get one team loaded with celebrities, the game goes to hell in a hand basket. But... on what maps? Hastings, Game Warden, Lang vei and sometimes Con Thien and Khe Sahn. I think on Game Warden and Hastings more than any other maps. The problem is main raping.

The rule has been that main rape is ok on the last flag. Why? Why allow main raping with gunships and MI8s anyway? You end up with guys either going afk or leaving the game because they spawn die spawn die. This problem is exacerbated by players who are already afk and perhaps the teams are skewed.

If you had a rule that said absolutely no main raping in gunships and MI8s, perhaps we could keep players playing. It does help to see guys like Austin, Fury and Toxic switching teams to help out the guys who are getting hammered.

There could then be no claims of they didn't know their team had capped another flag, thus requiring an end to the rape. Besides, is raping easy targets fun? Is that good for the game and does it keep players playing? We all know the answer.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[RoBoDuCk]

I'm not a fan of legal main-rape. I'd be down with zero main-raping rule change, but there are some detractors to be consider.

When a team sits in their main the entire game and you as a pilot just sit in the air... waiting for some action. Asking the pilot to abandon their vehicle and fight on the ground is a stretch. Especially because another ground map is right around the corner and the temptation would be to AFK the next round or leave till the next air map or leave altogether. This would kill off the "air-boys" desire to play the game.

I will be honest, the main reason I play is the air-maps. There is something special about the Huey and it's the only thing that gives me full immersion aka "feels like I am actually in Vietnam"! I assume a few others fell the same. I would regret it if changing the rule became a slippery slope to "choppers can never shoot ground troops."

 

[Vmax]

There would be no problem if the Pilots in particular spread themselves across both teams so that the round is a lot fairer. Its pretty hard to play infantry on those maps without a decent pilot on your team to counter the others but this is only ever a problem when we have low numbers on the server. Taking mains when there are low numbers on is also bad as it leaves 1 side without air.

I don't think there is a solution to this other than hoping that most guys like to play a fairer round that lasts for a while.

Regards
Rob

 

[TonyB]

I wish guys wouldn't rape. Period. What fun is it to circle and blast spawning players - circle and circle and blast away. That takes real talent. In a game not long ago I posted that if you guys wonder why there are so few players, maybe this is why. Raping a main that has four or five guys with one being AFK - that's driving players off as well.

 

[Vmax]

I hear you Pinky but there are quite a few players that love to see a big score and a good KD ratio at the cost of everyone else. I have often seen Gold/Silver/Bronze go to 3 pilots on the loosing team :?

On the positive side at least we now have an anti mainraping rule that helps gameplay quite a bit and is far better than the free for all that used to be.

 

[Capt. Canada]

Battlefield Vietnam is a game of violence, exclusion, and degradation. To expect players (well, all players) to accept the style of game play that would preclude all main raping is a noble idea, but it is simply unrealistic. To me, it's similar to the argument of XM and M79 against ground troops and shooting feet; no, Hellsfury, Toxic, and quite a few other players would not do that, but others would. Some players would accept it because they love the challenge of a fair battle against a quality opponent, but some would simply seek that wonderful KDR.

Personally, I think we are kinda good with our regulation of game play right now. Teams often end up in the predicament you describe through their own inaction, and I have a tough time explaining to someone "No, you cannot go attack people until they begin a comeback." Call it BFV Darwinism. The slow, weak, and stupid will perish while the swift, strong, and intelligent will thrive.

 

[TonyB]

Hard to disagree with that Canada but if players leave the game because of it, and we all know what fun it is to be raped, then we end up with 8 guys playing on the server. Let them get out of main. The game is more fun.

I can't imagine a team camping in their main. Guys will spawn - die - spawn - die in a rape situation rather than go afk. Some quit. They do try to get out of main but it's not easy when the other team steals your hist and uses it to blast you.

 

[SucceededKiller]

I think most of the important points have been raised here.

The rule was designed to give people a chance, whilst promoting flag capturing.

I'm sure we all remember the days of Hastings when the game would start, and both mi-8's would be at US main slaughtering everything with a pulse. The US would lose it's Huey's, or not even get them airborne, and the entire map would just revolve around the US team being killed as they spawn, or losing the flags they did have as their air support was non-existent.

This rule stops that, or at least should, for the most part. It gives people a reason to make sure they have other flags, but doesn't make mains an area that's entirely off limits as it doesn't seem right to give teams a flag that no-one is allowed to attack.

I think how it is right now is the best solution for it. We prevent it when there are other targets, allow it when there are none and also allow them to assist should ground troops neutralise it, or by some miracle a heli neutralises it without shooting...

What players need to begin to realise though is that just because they can main-rape on last flag, doesn't mean they should. I know there are players out there that wont attack it if it's the last flag, I try not to, because it's just not fun; there's no challenge to killing ground troops or grounded helis/planes... Also, just because the other team main raped doesn't mean you should...that's a terrible attitude to have and will only make things worse. Record it, report it and have it dealt with. Being one of the only servers left, no-one is going to want long-term bans...

Another issue is people ignore the rule, which I'm hoping the report system will slowly start to stop. When players realise anyone on the server can get them a 24 hour ban or longer, it wont take long for them to be extra cautious about breaking rules.

I've been playing under an array of different names recently, as my stats probably show. The way players act when they know an admin is there, compared to when they think there is not is completely different. Just today I had to deal with this:

2015-11-14 07:47:52 : User SucceededKiller issued console command 'admin.admin_killplayer 1'.
2015-11-14 07:47:55 : User SucceededKiller said '[BVSM] Record please don't main rape unless last flag'.
2015-11-14 08:51:58 : User SucceededKiller said '[BVSM] Spieler please don't main rape unless last flag'.
2015-11-14 08:52:01 : User SucceededKiller issued console command 'admin.admin_killplayer 6'.
2015-11-14 08:53:31 : User SucceededKiller said '[BVSM] -=Int.]-[=- rick please don't main rape unless last flag'.
2015-11-14 08:53:34 : User SucceededKiller issued console command 'admin.admin_killplayer 1'.
2015-11-14 08:57:27 : User SucceededKiller said '[BVSM] Morgan Kane please don't main rape unless last flag'.
2015-11-14 08:57:30 : User SucceededKiller issued console command 'admin.admin_killplayer 10'
2015-11-14 09:02:21 : User SucceededKiller said '[BVSM] Record kicked for Kick for main raping'.
2015-11-14 09:02:21 : User SucceededKiller issued console command 'admin.admin_killplayer 2'.
2015-11-14 09:02:47 : User SucceededKiller issued console command 'admin.admin_killplayer 8'.
2015-11-14 09:02:50 : User SucceededKiller said '[BVSM] Coala please don't main rape unless last flag'.
2015-11-14 09:03:46 : User SucceededKiller said '[BVSM] Ben Dover please don't play disruptively'.

and so I will continue playing under other names and keep dealing with this, but if players want to help when there isn't an admin there by recording and reporting the player in accordance with our player reporting system it would help greatly.

AFK players are an issue, but we can deal with the ones with no score without needing to be in-game, so I'll look out for that a bit more.

Hopefully over time this will result in less rule breaking and more fun for us all.

 

[jimmyboy]

This problem is easy enough .. just have a few more admins playing on the down-low .. OR add more anti-aircraft cannons to each base making it harder to attack with air .. perhaps make the cannons indestructable/large HP? .. or even boost the damage of the cannon's .. that would make raping or taking a base interesting

Just a thought

 

[WHITERABBIT]

at hastings 3 anti air cannons at each base at the right positions sounds good....

funny would be at reclaiming hue a gunboat under the bridge

saigon 68 kick transport heli and do fighting huey ?

tryoutweek for interesting balancing...?

 

[TonyB]

For the most part, I like the maps the way they are. I am glad that SK and hopefully other admins get in the game using alias ids.

I still say having a rule that says no raping, period, will help keep the game alive. When we are lucky enough to get a player on who has not played in a long time, then they end up getting murderized by guys circling main in gunships mowing them down as they spawn... so they leave.

I don't get it. It's fun to play the game. Why ruin it?

 

[mRoRange]

There is a simple solution that's not automatic but would help.

Some players need to be in a little more proactive mode when noticing teams are stacked.
If one team is clearly out-numbered or talent stacked, make a switch and even the game a little better,

I see so many games stacked and play for hours like that. Playing with close to/as good as it can teams,
makes it a lot more fun.

 

[RoBoDuCk]

Very true Orange, sadly though even that can be abused, I just played a few rounds this week where spieler and doen were both switching and stacking nonstop. I tried to even things out constantly as it was just a 4v4 match.... until I just gave up, I will help, but I won't put my KDR down too far.

 

[TonyB]

I also agree with what Orange says here. Not that I am a celebrity player but I will switch when I see teams are a little messed up. It's what to do about the AFKs.

Maybe with the limited number of players, we can implement the vote kick thing. I know it can be a pain in the butt and be abused but when no admins are on, this enables us to get the AFKs booted.

Maybe you can turn on the spectator mode? Then ask if you are going afk, switch to spectator. With the new logins, we are hopefully rid of Hash and the UPEO dude.

 

[360TheRooster]

pick up an RPD or m60 when getting raped and build your character it works

 

[TonyB]

Trust me, I am very good with a LAW/RPG when choppers are circling main. Problem is when there's more than one it is hard to get a shot off. Also, what does this do for new players who don't have the skills nor interest in spawn - die - spawn - die - spawn - die ???

 

[SucceededKiller]

Trust me, I am very good with a LAW/RPG when choppers are circling main. Problem is when there's more than one it is hard to get a shot off. Also, what does this do for new players who don't have the skills nor interest in spawn - die - spawn - die - spawn - die ???

And what do you expect forbidding main rape to change, in this regard?

Instead of the map finishing as everyone gets killed/loses their main, we will have the map going on forever as no-one can be killed at main. Then, every time they attempt to capture a flag, the full might of the opposing teams air units will be on them in an instant.

Main rape doesn't occur that much now though, teams manage to keep flags better, and hopefully with more players that will improve further. We had 26 players on the other day, despite the password and before any new players. If that's any indication of how things will be in the future it looks pretty promising and legal main rape should drop drastically if we manage to get back to full force, and have 26 people per team.

 

[TonyB]

And what do you expect forbidding main rape to change, in this regard?

This makes sense, especially since players like ABEL CHRISTIAN continues to rape, even though not last flag. Prior bans, and I think he was perma-banned at one point, have not stopped him. He could care less.

The idea behind my suggestion is that perhaps it may prevent players from leaving the game or quitting the game never to return. Not long ago I was on when a player or two came along, either new or they announce they have not played in a long time. The rape and incessant spawn - die - spawn - die drives them away.

 

[mRoRange]

pick up an RPD or m60 when getting raped and build your character it works

Hey , dont be stealing my quotes " character builder" ... I charge for those things !

 

[360TheRooster]

I think my ground fire is some of the most intense around, is a chopper is smoking i will shot with any weapon including shotgun pistol and sniper rifle, some games i play to only shoot choppers