Friendly fire; should it be trialed?

[SucceededKiller]

Hey,

So the discussion regarding friendly fire has come up and we'd like your opinion.

You can find the previous discussion thread here: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6820

Below is a quick overview of what would change assuming we trialled it for a weekend:

Assuming I enable only the splash damage people are going to have to be very cautious with:

Huey missiles (pilot)
MI-8 missiles (pilot)
Hormone missiles (co-pilot)
Cobra missiles (pilot and co-pilot)
ACH missiles (co-pilot)
F4-Phantom missiles
F4-Phantom napalm
MIG-21 missiles
MIG-17 bombs
A7 Corsair bombs
AC-47 bombs
SA-7s
MUTTs
Betty bombs
Claymores
C4
Land mines
Time bombs
Grenades
LAWs
RPG's
M79's
Mortar shells
Tank shells
M110 shells
M46 shells
ZSU flak
BM21 rockets

(If I missed some please point them out.)


This affects a lot more than just your average "foot-shooter" and a lot of the aforementioned weapons will kill by accident. (guided missiles have no Friend/Foe identification, players already don't watch for mines)

Admins will have their work cut out with the sheer amount of "x killed a teammate" notices which is why I said that they don't have to admin the entire time as they are also players, and would like to play the game at times and not deal with all the team kills this is sure to cause if enabled.

Let us know what you think in the replies below.

Regards,
SucceededKiller.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

I think we should try it for one day maybe but I think it will end badly.

 

[=UPEO=Bojangles]

SK, does that code suggest you could also just turn on Friendly Fire for LAW's? Wouldn't that satisfy Toxy?

I agree with Agent 86, it's gonna end in tears but it will be hilarious to watch.

 

[SucceededKiller]

SK, does that code suggest you could also just turn on Friendly Fire for LAW's? Wouldn't that satisfy Toxy?

I have 2 friendly fire choices; direct and indirect. As the "foot shooting" is a result of indirect fire, I just listed everything I could think of that does indirect damage and put in in the code, to give people an overview of everything that would be affected.

 

[WO1. Hicks]

This is a must to improve the gameplay of the server!
Could you imagine how much actual gunfire there would be? Instead of this Thump Gun bullcrap.

And when I played Bf42 (Back in the Day), the servers all seemed to have it if you TK'd the server would automatically kill you. Why not consider that?

 

[Capt. Canada]

I am for it. Yes, it will be beautifully horrible at first, but players will adapt unless they are monumentally stupid, at which point we need to be asking what they are doing in front of a computer in the first place. If it's not too much trouble to make the adjustments, then put it in place for a day, Friendly Fire Friday, as suggested earlier.

Sure, I'll have to babysit more at first, but it fixes itself. For example, I barely have to spectate air maps much anymore for mainrape because most players have figured it out.

 

[Hellsfury99]

Well I voted yes. I would love to see ff on but I think everyone should also be looking at the big picture. With FF it means the admins are going to have to deal with all the fallout. That means nothing to us. We will log in have a great time and for many enjoy it more but at whose expense? Admins do this out of the love of the game and like to actually enjoy the game.....as in playing it. If we turn on ff and chaos ensues there will be no game play for them. All their time will be sorting out messes.

Do I really need to have my game play experience enhanced at the cost of Blood's, Canada's, SK's, Hairball's or any other admins playing expense? I don't and you are talking to someone who detests point blank tubes and betties at spawn points and the other bs as much as anyone who plays.

Oh and yes...I know they signed on to be admins but this was not part of the gig.

So I am all for giving this a go but if this turns into a major job for them then it's time we just need to deal with the noobery.

HF

 

[SucceededKiller]

And when I played Bf42 (Back in the Day), the servers all seemed to have it if you TK'd the server would automatically kill you. Why not consider that?

I can have it automatically kick players but the server will not know if it was deliberate or accidental, and I don't want to have players kicked for something that isn't their own fault.

It's also open to abuse if we do this. Lets say I didn't like you, and I saw you put a mine down. I could run over your mine, causing you to get a teamkill; getting you kicked if I do it enough.

Considering the rivalries some people have on the server I could certainly see that happening.

Do I really need to have my game play experience enhanced at the cost of Blood's, Canada's, SK's, Hairball's or any other admins playing expense? I don't and you are talking to someone who detests point blank tubes and betties at spawn points and the other bs as much as anyone who plays.

Before first trialling this I plan on asking which admins are interested in admining the TKing and I'll put up a list. That way admins who are up for it can and those that are not do not have to. A majority of the admins who currently play are people I've asked, and friendly fire was not in place when they accepted, so I'm not going to mind if they'd like to give it a miss during the trial.

 

[bloodbath311]

SK, I'll be willing to admin this new rule. Even though we haven't formally discussed yet.

I hope the new rules take. It teaches self control. People that use XM/ LAW/ RPG, to the feet, will have to learn a new tactic.

 

[toxic2]

Everyone calm..... Of course there will be chaos to start.
It is a giant leap...in the right direction, I believe this. And our fellow players Will gain control of this task.
Just because it presents difficulties does not mean we should simply discard the idea if it does not work overnight.

There are Many others that play in the server but do not come to the forums, that agree FF is a good idea. Its a Game, and an old one that most all have been playing for many years at this point... it Cannot hurt to try it.

Admins probably will be busy. Yes they enjoy playing the game also. Perhaps we can arrange for it to be on a set weekend, giving admins notice that their presence would be desired considering the task.

I would like to thank everyone that's in favor of giving this a try. It wont be easy, but ultimately it should greatly improve the players, and the gaming quality in the server.

I would see to the rules, and highlight that people know FF is coming for a wknd soon.
Also add a few additional rules and hints, like using the 'Q' button to locate friendly mines\betties and such.
Urge in text Friendly Fire not tolerated, show love to your team and your feet

It can be done
Thank you SK.

 

[Capt. Canada]

Tox has been watching a few too many of Barack Obama's speeches, but well done sir. Inspiring.

The players will figure it out in about 3 seconds, and each moment will be a hilarious learning moment. Don't think that I simply jest when I say this; I foresee bedlam when the new player enters the game and unknowingly kills a teammate because it is going to happen often at first, and we'll see some strange scores. Of course, it's when the teammate seeks retribution that we will have to arbitrate, and that could be tricky, but that's part of the position.

I think when we signed on to serve as admins, we understood that we were there to look out for what was best for the server. We abandon play sometimes to serve the greater good, and sometimes that comes at the expense of our team while we are AFK.

I'll do what needs to be done to make the server better. Players are just going to have to be patient as we work out what we consider to be intentional teamkill versus an accidental teamkill.

 

[toxic2]

I wish not to make the admins jobs more difficult. I am sorry because it obviously would.

Sorry Canada, I don't even like Obama.

 

[Capt. Canada]

It will make it more work for a little while just like the main rape rule did, but if it's all for the betterment of the server, then I am for it.

 

[toxic2]

LMAO @ RuS Warrior!!!
Thanks for explaining ALL of that. If you didn't just post ALL of that, I don't think Anyone of us would have figured that out.
Its a good thing nothing slips passed you

 

[HoloDuke]

I think this is a good idea. I have to confess, when I first started playing on this server I wanted FF on and then I gave up and started tubing. It was fun and a guilty pleasure but I would rather have FF on - it provides better balance to the game.

Regarding TK's - that is going to be the real problem. Is there any way to turn on voting? I think one answer is to autoban for a day anytime someone goes over a certain number of TK's (maybe 10). The obvious problem is going to be with people laying landmines and personel bombs.

I think its going to negatively affect people who effectively use and have a lot of fun with landmines and personnel mines but it will prevent RPG/LAW/M79.

Realistically, if someone wants to play an arcade style game, there are lots of other options out there. I think anyone who plays such an old game as this really likes something specific with this game and would adjust accordingly rather than leave the server.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[SucceededKiller]

You're right with all your points Warrior, but this is only intended as a trial; there is no guarantee it will stay long term and there is no real harm in trying it.

There are ~3 BFV servers left that ever have players; ours, =KGC= ~Airwar~ and [GRIFFIN] Montreal <SSM>.

It makes sense for us to make changes based on what players want, within reason, does it not? Like the main rape rule that came into place. It makes sense to give players a chance, especially on maps like Hastings and Game Warden, now that player numbers have declined since gamespy.

This poll will stay here until Sunday at which point we'll see what the results are and then the following weekend, if the answer is yes, we'll give it a shot.

Admins will have their work cut out, and players will abuse the system, but we'll just have to do our best for that one weekend. We've also recruited an additional 3+ admins in the past few months so hopefully coverage will get better as we get more. I also don't plan on suggesting any bans being placed for people who teamkill during this time as players will have to drastically change how they play.

I also agree that the reasoning is flawed. People want this because they are fed up of other players shooting the floor below them to kill enemies in close range, and although it doesn't bother me I can understand that; the problem though is that this'll effect more than just that which is why I don't think this will be kept long term.

There are numerous legitimate uses of splash damage weapons that will be negative affected by this change which are mentioned in my main post and that you've also mentioned in yours so we'll just have to see how bad it ends up.

But all that aside, the whole reason for this thread is so it can be discussed. So we can get people's point of views and opinions and make a more informed decision, so thank you for sharing yours.

Regarding TK's - that is going to be the real problem. Is there any way to turn on voting? I think one answer is to autoban for a day anytime someone goes over a certain number of TK's (maybe 10). The obvious problem is going to be with people laying landmines and personel bombs.

Voting and auto kicks are ripe for abuse but I will certainly go over the functions and let people know after Sunday what has been decided as the best way to trial this if it goes ahead. The problem with an auto kick for a negative score is mainly an issue with admins (I've hit a score of -8 before because I had to swap between being spawned at my main, and suiciding to watch my team, just to watch for main rape) and with FF on players will be able to deliberately give their team mates negative points.

 

[Mav3ricK]

This poll would certainly have as a result a major success for the anti-noob side of the peole, but I wonder, what quorum should it have enough to make it truly democratic. I mean, do 15 people represent the entire Hello Server opinion? Guess not. I think more people should be asked for this thing that will deeply transform the way we are used to play.
Leave it as it is now. I don't want to quit using time bombs and C4, the most amusing items of hardware of the whole game

 

[hairball]

Well I say letz give it a try for two weekends in a row , sure it might be a little tough at first but you never know until we give it a wee go . Then we see where it takes us . Maybe a train wreak , maybe rainbowz and kittens . One thing I do know is we will keep are feet . :lol:

 

[SucceededKiller]

Unfortunately not, but there are announcements on the server regarding it and some of the replies here are from new accounts so people are obviously taking note. There have also been discussions about it on the server so people are going to have trouble missing it.

We'll hopefully get more replies closer to the weekend when more people have the time to play the game and therefore learn about this discussion that's taking place.

 

[SucceededKiller]

Naturally there will be closer to the weekend Even the last day of the poll !

Ps - great game last night!
Ek is nogsteeds moeg maar wakker to a degree >.< :dead:

Also, if people don't like it we will certainly know once it is enabled.

Did you deliberately have that last sentence suddenly go from Afrikaans to English? xD
And your use of a special character (#) prevents people from adding you as a friend on the website so that's an interesting bug that I don't think has been noticed in at least 4 years of this being here... xD