The way the server is going

[Yok_Foo]

I think i've been going crazy on the server, imagining things, or perhaps not.

I saw a couple of players which i knew were noobs but suddenly they had become really good at predicting around corners, their names were "Rilou AK47 fr" and "Cao_Bang_Fr" (sic).

I became suspicious that they had some kind of hacks going on so i asked them if they were hacking? as a reply Rilou started talking cryptic french while he knows english pretty well, after my suspicions grew i confronted him more times and sometimes he didn't write anything while often he arrogantly replied in french, it was obvious his arrogant behaviour only came when i confronted him.

But i lost it, after 2 hours i knew he was hacking, i cussed at him for being an hacker but he didn't react to accusations which speaks for his doings on the server.
I apologise for my bad behaviour on the server...

There are some hackers on the server (EU time), i just know it, but my cussing was and IS inexcusable.

1 hacker is 1 one too many, 2-3 hackers are too much.

After two other hackers "Nür für Dich" and " <^>" talked about hacks on the server in recent weeks/months i've decided to maybe leave HELLO clan if situation doesn't get better.

I think anybody who gets caught of hacking should be banned, doesn't matter who you are because otherwise it tells other hackers that it's OK to hack on Hello allmaps and everything that follows from it.

 

[Falcon]

okay so explain me...whats an EVIDENCE hack for you? ..You will wait someone to tell you that he hacks??

 

[CommandoBeta]

okay so explain me...whats an EVIDENCE hack for you? ..You will wait someone to tell you that he hacks??

Let me start this post by asking you a question.. what do you propose we do to stop hackers? We appreciate all help and I'm sure you, as self-proclaimed 'hacker buster', might be a big asset to our team.

Also, I think you didn't quite answer my previous question - how am I corrupt? You think I've been spectating all those people and been writing all those posts while in secret I actually like the hackers?

Now, to the question in your post, I wrote this on the same subject before:

.........
Which brings us to good evidence. I realise that this is extremely hard to get. In shooter games like Battlefield Vietnam, luck plays a very important part of the game. Also, because we can only spectate 3rd person, we do not know what the spectated player sees. That is why basicly the only way we proove that someone hacks, is to show that he knows exactly where the enemies are. At close range, even this doesn't mean anything - you can hear people. Looking through walls or floors is suspicious, but someone who uses a headset will agree with me that it is easier to determine where someone is, if you try and follow the sound with your mouse. The fact that this is a very buggy game makes it even worse. I have seen people who were higher than the Presidential palace in Saigon, people without heads, and people standing up who are actually crouching. Even a reinstall didnt fix this, and that is why I can see snipers standing up, while in their game they are actually laying on the ground. This game is not the same for different players who are looking at the same place in a map. Also changing brightness and video quality can make it easier to spot people.

Which brings us to the point, how CAN you proove that someone hacks? Vyrus just brings up lists of hacks from Wikipedia, but half of the hacks on those lists are impossible in BFV, like Kurk has posted too, before. "Sliding" is NOT hacking, we have had many topics about that ( http://helloclan.eu/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1472 ). Vyrus suggests we should just ban anyone who is the smallest bit suspicious (which also means banning Vyrus, because he admitted hacking a few months ago, why woulnd't he do it again?) Proving that someone hacks is very hard, so what you have to do is spectate and record him ALOT. I'm afraid that all we can do is film how he makes alot of suspicious + impossible kills. With every suspicious kill he makes, the chance that it is just sheer luck, decreases with about 0,9. The videos that Bee posted, for instance, show 2 suspicious kills. Both are not hard evidence though. But, because Bee now actually added what we have to look at, its much easier for us to analyze the evidence. And because of the videos, admins will be spectating Liz again in the future. Which is also how this system works, by spectating ALOT and for a long time, you will see if someone is hacking/ not, and you will be able to get evidence. So don't be offended when we do not inmediatly ban someone after a suspicious video, because we do spectate those players.

Lastly, PunkBuster could help out alot, but unfortunatly it doesn't seem to work on the server.

It (Punkbuster) will not work. And many people don't have PB. What would lead to losing many people. The best thing we can do is try to get the spectator working.

 

[acashmony]

this topic

 

[Falcon]

Beta, u are right, and i perfectly understand you!

But the thing is....we have proofs about Syrius for instance, and he used hacks b4 he changed nickname, you see what i mean?

You should be harder than that, because you are too much flexible for those guys.

Sincerly, i got no answer to your question, and ur answer doesnt correspond to my question. We can still argue on that to tomorow morning, the important is to work hard and really listen to Toxic.... So for the future, I ask you to pay more attention for those guys, dont ask for people to do it. Thats you job buddy, and i count on you to do it.

I only want some more leadership and better decisions from admins, you are concerned. Your clan is getting a really bad image in bfv, and thats not good. HELLO is supposed to be one of the best and the most respectful.

In one sentence: You are admin=You have responsability on what is happening in server=You should take decisions.
....this can help you: "Dont wait someone else, just do it"

 

[Tedde]

Beta, idk what you deal is.... plain and simple, SAS Elite used map hacks, Syrius Virus use map hacks. There is no in between, its proven.
Go ahead, defend your big ego some more. and yea, i also saw that you were in the sever for like an house the past few weeks, bravo ron, bravo.

yea all i was originally trying to say on This topic here, was that 2 people were excused for their "USE" of hacks.
1 player being wonghunglow/syrius virus.
2 being sas elite soldier. (admin)
therefore agreeing with Yok Foo about the 'problems' here, leading to this exhausting exchange shit!
thats all i was stating. and if people have been reading they can see i stated the facts. thats all.

I didn't see him denying they used hacks, rather rationalize their motives. Something which you doesn't seem to want to understand. I can't speak for Syrus, but SAS-Elite Soldier has been with HelloClan for years upon years, and has hardly ever gotten in any arguments over anything during those years. During that period he has been online pretty much every day, and has dealt with more problems than you can imagine. And up until he used the hack to catch other hackers for an extremely brief period of time, he hasn't ever been accused nor suspected to ever use hacks.

I wrote the rules to make the game as fair as possible, but in the end it all comes down to what is best for the server and the clan. And everything in this world is not as black and white as you seem to think it is. So when a grey-zone situation like the one with SAS appears, we do the rational thing.

Beta, idk what you deal is.... plain and simple, SAS Elite used map hacks, Syrius Virus use map hacks. There is no in between, its proven.

Plain and simple? Our server rules forbids hacking, but does not define exactly how we are supposed to deal with hackers. I can tell you that it's in our best interest to do everything in our power to stop hacking on the server, whether you believe that or not is up to you. But the interesting thing is that everything that you're basing your arguments on is what you think is the right thing to do, and I hardly think that you have such a complete insight into how the clan works to make a better call than the Leaders in a situation like with SAS.

As I read this topic, I hate to say it but most of what toxic is saying is true. Its making me wonder if I should continue to be in HELLO clan. As much as iv enjoyed being in the clan for almost a year now the truth is the truth. I try to spectate people when i can if i think there hacking or not. But for the most part i can see if they are definetly hacking if they kill me more than 3-5 times suspiciously. I play alot with toxic and friends at 360/private server. I see all kinds of playing and different moves. And as for the part where this fight seems to go nowhere with syrius. My opinion is he does still use it in-game. Anyway my point-Im considering leaving HELLO clan for the same reasons as Yok Foo. Why be in a clan that allows this? I know some of the blame is mine. But i just cant spec them all myself. Also im thinking about leaving my admin ships behind. I don't know what im going to do. But i will try to have it decided by New Years.

Got any constructive propositions to go with that statement?

I have to say that i'm leaving HELLO clan, because players have asked me "why do HELLO allow hackers?" and i can't give them a good answer.

I've been accused of hacking a few times but i say directly "no sir i don't hack" and i don't have other proof but atleast it's something, i don't know how a hack works and if Syrius had two games installed in order to not hack?

That is unfortunate, since you could've just referred them to our rules on the website. bfv/rules.php
Hint: It clearly states "No Hacking".

So you're getting called a hacker on the server? The very same system you are criticizing seems to the reason for you not being banned. Since the alternative to our current evidence based system is trusting players who are certain someone are using hacks.

I might however be open for additional parameters in the process of proving someone is hacking, such as a poll where a minimum number of people must agree for it to be used as evidence in accordance with another form of evidence. I'm certainly open to new ideas, if anyone got one.

Syrius was hacking today, and when i asked admin SAS to watch him, he ignored me.
So yeah, hacks are allowed by SAS and some other admins.

Admins not giving you the personal service you demand means hacks are allowed? Not sure if you're actually that incredibly ignorant, or just trolling.

I say, we move to 1.21 and enable PB

I don't even know why I'm responding to what you wrote, since that would obviously be suicide.

Hackers should be ban, doesnt matter thetype of hack (wallhack, 3d, moonwalking, etc..)....that law is not respected in HELLO clan. There are CLEAR proofs and admins persist to not kick/ban someone for cheating/hacking.

Moonwalking is not a hack but the effect of someone playing with a joystick. The admins persists not to kick/ban someone because they do not have "clear proof". They follow the system we've set up, which requires them to gather evidence. So don't blame the admins, blame the system. However I can't help but to assume that you would currently be banned if we banned people based on players individual and collective certainty in someone hacking. Since more people have accused you of hacking than anyone else I can think of.

This is ridiculous, admins are corrupt, and for YOK FOO: "The way the server is going"...my answer: "This server is going nowhere, it will stay like it is right now until the end of internet".

Honnest professional players from HELLO will quit because of corruption here.

Come on, people are not stupid, EVERYONE understands what is happening here.
Are you corrupt? Yes. Why? Maybe they give you hacks too.

Care to provide some more details regarding your corruption theories?
I hate to break it to you, but we're running an online server in an 8 year old game. Things aren't as complex on the inside as you seem to think they are from the outside.

 

[toxic2]

where it clearly sais NO HACKING... but tedde just sais "Plain and simple? Our server rules forbids hacking, but does not define exactly how we are supposed to deal with hackers."

so the ones that did get banned, you knew how to 'deal' with those guys?
im confused here, maybe what you meant to say was that you werent sure Exactly how to 'deal' with the Admin, or Members of Your clan that were admitted to or caught cheating? idk, im just puting that out there for instance.
and no tedde, i again was stating that 2 people that I KNOW FOR SURE were forgiven for their 'use' of hacks.
thats ALL i was stating. i didnt want to go proving points and what, i just wanted to correct Beta where he said originally that no one had ever been forgiven for hacking.
So i think You sir, misunderstand me.

 

[Tedde]

where it clearly sais NO HACKING... but tedde just sais "Plain and simple? Our server rules forbids hacking, but does not define exactly how we are supposed to deal with hackers."

so the ones that did get banned, you knew how to 'deal' with those guys?
im confused here, maybe what you meant to say was that you werent sure Exactly how to 'deal' with the Admin, or Members of Your clan that were admitted to or caught cheating? idk, im just puting that out there for instance.
and no tedde, i again was stating that 2 people that I KNOW FOR SURE were forgiven for their 'use' of hacks.
thats ALL i was stating. i didnt want to go proving points and what, i just wanted to correct Beta where he said originally that no one had ever been forgiven for hacking.
So i think You sir, misunderstand me.

Seeing as that being the only sentence you're quoting and giving an explicit answer to, it seems like you either didn't bother understanding the rest, or thought that what I was saying seemed logical from our perspective - which would mean you can see situations from more perspectives than your own.

Seeing as you seem to know some legal parameters of our server which we're unaware of, I'll explain further.
Our rule "No hacking", implies hacking is forbidden. It never says anything about it resulting in a mandatory ban, even if that's the case 99% of the time according to our internal guidelines for the admins. SAS was obviously using it for something good. Looking at our history with SAS which I talked about in my last reply, we trusted his motives and therefore did not give him the same punishment as someone who would use hacks to get an unfair advantage over other players. Doing that would be irrational, as SAS is one of the most active admins & is and has been contributing to the clan more than most people. With that said, I'm not sure why you imply that someone is forgiven unless they're banned, since there's more punishments than bans, no matter how mild or harsh. He was punished in the form of a strong and clear warning, which we deemed legitimate because of the circumstances, circumstances which you seem to take out of your conclusion.

And with syrus I don't really have anything to say, if he uses hacks and there's evidence in accordance with our system he will be banned. If there's not, he wont. If you have any propositions for additional parameters in the process of proving someone is hacking according to our system, feel free to let us know. It will then be taken into consideration.

 

[JohnWayne]

To screw up these nametag hackers (aka 3d map hackers) you could turn nametags off on the server.

This would still leave the problem of mini-map hackers,
So what if you could have the server send false nametags, and minimap arrows of the opposite team to a player. For example, if a player is US the server sends fake NVA nametags and minimap arrows. The only ppl that that would screw up are hackers looking at their nametags and minimaps...now they won't be able to tell what nametags to shoot at.

Since punkbuster isn't an option, the other thing that could be done is to use an app that would check bfv's memory and make sure no instructions have been changed. Basically computer game hacks just change processor instructions in the game, so this app would be running while ppl are connected to bfv and when the admins suspect someone they would have the app check the player's bfv memory. Then you could see where their game's instructions differs, and identify what cheats they are using. this can be used as additional evidence to conclude if they cheat. It being important that the app would only read the player's bfv memory when told to by an admin, because that way hackers couldn't just join and tell if their cheats are undetected or not.

 

[toxic2]

TEDDE wrote : "Seeing as you seem to know some legal parameters of our server which we're unaware of, I'll explain further."
Our rule "No hacking", implies hacking is forbidden. It never says anything about it resulting in a mandatory ban, even if that's the case 99% of the time according to our internal guidelines for the admins. SAS was obviously using it for something good. Looking at our history with SAS which I talked about in my last reply, we trusted his motives and therefore did not give him the same punishment as someone who would use hacks to get an unfair advantage over other players. Doing that would be irrational, as SAS is one of the most active admins & is and has been contributing to the clan more than most people. With that said, I'm not sure why you imply that someone is forgiven unless they're banned, since there's more punishments than bans, no matter how mild or harsh. He was punished in the form of a strong and clear warning, which we deemed legitimate because of the circumstances, circumstances which you seem to take out of your conclusion.

And with syrus I don't really have anything to say, if he uses hacks and there's evidence in accordance with our system he will be banned. If there's not, he wont. If you have any propositions for additional parameters in the process of proving someone is hacking according to our system, feel free to let us know. It will then be taken into consideration.[/quote]


Whats funny is that as SIMPLE as i can put it... pointing out people that were 'WARNED' for cheating, and you still want to correct me somewhere.... now i know that hacking doesnt ALWAYS result in ban.... thats what your trying to say here tedde?
i thought i understood that hackers would be banned, thats all... sorry for the inconvienence here people.. ill state it one more time tho... CLEARLY.

SAS ELITE SOLDIER, EITHER DOES, or DID FOR SURE POSESS A 3D MAP HACK...
SYRIUS VIRUS DOES, OR DID AND STILL USES 3D MAP HACK...
there are NO in betweens.
I'll keep stating it too, as long as we all know its a fact, and theres some idiots that want to defend them, thats fine... thats cool... but ill stand by what i know are facts here, and unless your going to Ban me for stating facts, ill CONTINUE to state them as long as people want to Dispute them.

 

[slayer4041]

this topic has gone WAY out of hand. ban the hackers, like you're supposed too, no matter who they are. problem solved.

 

[acashmony]

this topic has gone WAY out of hand. ban the hackers, like you're supposed too, no matter who they are. problem solved.

This goes down every 2-3 months.... reason I laugh at this. Same shit all the time people complaining about our server, but management really cant do much cause they have their own set of rules to play by. Main thing is that nothing will happen unless the management gets reconstructed. Thats it. I love everyone in Hello but having attitudes towards curtain players that curtain leaders have (bias) bans. Which every human is bias like it or not. The way this clan is run reminds me of communism that the people have no say in the government. They get the chance but like this, nothing/ignored.I would really like to ted to get rid of leaders or reposition them. The new members in HC hardly participate in the forums cause hell, its majority all complaints about the server they cant do about. I would really like to see a reconstruction of the BFV management, lost. And reconstruction of the HC leaders. All companys do this cause of bad choices the person did. For better hopes of having HC survive, in my mind a reconstruction is much over do. And do not pick through my post to do a detail analysis of what I posted about. I basically said all this to tell you how it feels to me to be part of this clan.

 

[Mr.Beezly]

acashmony wrote: This goes down every 2-3 months.... reason I laugh at this. Same shit all the time people complaining about our server, but management really cant do much cause they have their own set of rules to play by. Main thing is that nothing will happen unless the management gets reconstructed. Thats it. I love everyone in Hello but having attitudes towards curtain players that curtain leaders have (bias) bans. Which every human is bias like it or not. The way this clan is run reminds me of communism that the people have no say in the government. They get the chance but like this, nothing/ignored.I would really like to ted to get rid of leaders or reposition them. The new members in HC hardly participate in the forums cause hell, its majority all complaints about the server they cant do about. I would really like to see a reconstruction of the BFV management, lost. And reconstruction of the HC leaders. All companys do this cause of bad choices the person did. For better hopes of having HC survive, in my mind a reconstruction is much over do. And do not pick through my post to do a detail analysis of what I posted about. I basically said all this to tell you how it feels to me to be part of this clan.

Well said^^

 

[slayer4041]

this topic has gone WAY out of hand. ban the hackers, like you're supposed too, no matter who they are. problem solved.

This goes down every 2-3 months.... reason I laugh at this. Same shit all the time people complaining about our server, but management really cant do much cause they have their own set of rules to play by. Main thing is that nothing will happen unless the management gets reconstructed. Thats it. I love everyone in Hello but having attitudes towards curtain players that curtain leaders have (bias) bans. Which every human is bias like it or not. The way this clan is run reminds me of communism that the people have no say in the government. They get the chance but like this, nothing/ignored.I would really like to ted to get rid of leaders or reposition them. The new members in HC hardly participate in the forums cause hell, its majority all complaints about the server they cant do about. I would really like to see a reconstruction of the BFV management, lost. And reconstruction of the HC leaders. All companys do this cause of bad choices the person did. For better hopes of having HC survive, in my mind a reconstruction is much over do. And do not pick through my post to do a detail analysis of what I posted about. I basically said all this to tell you how it feels to me to be part of this clan.

Yes sas is helping a lot.
The only thing that Worrie SAS is the Rcon Thing, which i stopped due to hackers.
Hes afraid of me being "admin", something i dont give crap; Maybe likes feeling like he can ban me.
Anyway,
Syrus Vyrus was on server hacking, SAS was in NVA team and so was I.Syrus was USA.
I told sas he was hacking and he simply ignored.

--
As far as i hate some 360 members, toxic is right.
He was hacking and you guys do nothing.

Doesnt matter what proof we have. Because even if we record, you going say that we didnt have his info and could be a fake. Then you will ignore my Xfire messages.Then you will film him with your tag name ON, and obviously he wont hack.

So yeah, the message you sending is : " YOU CAN HACK AS LONG AS ADMIN DONT CATCH YOU "

well said. both of you.

also my clan intel division found this just a couple minutes ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr86nqP5yls
read the description. whoever recorded this has or had possession of a 3D Maphack. we don't know 100% who this is, but odds are it's Lost. In the ban report for (outlaw) it says the admin was Bee/Lost. When Bee got his proof, the map was Flaming Dart as seen in the Xfire Link. The other admin was Lost. That doesn't 100% put Bee out of the picture though. BUT. Lost didn't post that video that's on youtube on his xfire, so this guy may be an independent.

Whoever he his we need to catch him.

 

[Kurk]

My brain hurts from attempting to read this thread.

 

[Mr.Beezly]

Slayer for clarity on the ban, I took the xfire video, and I then showed it to Lost for approval of the ban. I just put the youtube video in the evidence because it shows a player called outlaw clearly hacking. Now whats the chances its not the same guy.

 

[slayer4041]

We just have to find out who took the video on youtube.

 

[CommandoBeta]

Slayer for clarity on the ban, I took the xfire video, and I then showed it to Lost for approval of the ban. I just put the youtube video in the evidence because it shows a player called outlaw clearly hacking. Now whats the chances its not the same guy.

We have to assume it's not the same guy. Like I said before it's SO EASY for me to take the name -[HELLO]-Bee [M-2Ldr] and hack in the server, if anyone spectates me then, YOU would have to be banned.. unless the person spectating asked the admin to get the player's info.

This is a way of protecting the players.

Also, by using videos taken by hackers as evidence, you stimulate people to download hacks, because you reward them if they do so.

 

[toxic2]

that video could have been from spectator mode... when the spectator mode ACTUALLY used to work in bfv.

 

[Kn3wn]

that video could have been from spectator mode... when the spectator mode ACTUALLY used to work in bfv.

What do you mean used to work?

 

[JohnWayne]

video and spectating may work against map hacks but it isn't going to catch people using accuracy hacks/glitches. you need something better: punkbuster.