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Post here your suggestions regarding this topic: https://forum.helloclan.eu/threads/8972/ !
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You are correct! In fact, I was playing at that time and so were you. I was excited to finally reach Fall of Saigon with so many players. It is the only map with the legendary AC-47 bomber (Douglas Spooky) and BRDM Malyutka Complex (TV guided missile launcher). I jumped on the AC-47 bomber airplane piloted by @Nagi Tanka as it was taking off. As soon as we were airborne, someone triggered a Saigon-1968 Mapvote, Fall of Saigon abruptly ended, and the rotation went back to one of the top-of-the-maplist-maps. I know several players who share my excitement for Fall of Saigon especially Peter-PANG!. Unfortunately, mapvotes and being on the bottom of the list prevent play of this map as often as before.
Yes, I have seen this happen many times. Since you seem to be concerned about players leaving the server when maps are "boring and unpopular", I would like you to consider that there are several players like @mRoRange, DiscoMagpie, @hard_rice, Petter-PANG!, myself, and others also leave, everytime the mapvote brings us back to Operation Hastings OR other top-of-the-maplist-maps.
I would like you to consider that there are several players like @mRoRange, DiscoMagpie, @hard_rice, Petter-PANG!, myself, and others also leave, everytime the mapvote brings us back to Operation Hastings OR other top-of-the-maplist-maps.
Also, lets not forget that Operation Hastings is a "large" map! Try walking from Red main to Blue main and you will see how "large" it is. So all this debate about "large" maps being "boring and unpopular" is kind of baseless because the most popular and voted map is very "large".
This has kind of happened before:
After a few people asked for this in 2018, @IceSkater tried removing some of the maps and this backfired. His intentions, similar to yours were to encourage more traffic. After serious discussions on this topic, there was a forum vote held here and an overwhelming majority voted to RESTORE ALL MAPS. It turns out that every map is favored by some player or the other, therefore removing any map(s) will lead to loss of players on this server. That historic forum vote thread has mysteriously disappeared/deleted ( https://forum.helloclan.eu/threads/8270/page-3 ).
Since we already have Mapvote turned ON, I request you not to remove maps during weekdays because whatever little chance that players like @mRoRange, DiscoMagpie, @hard_rice, Petter-PANG!, myself, and others have in playing rare maps during weekdays is forcibly taken away.
It is being predicted that a second wave of COVID19 is beginning now. We may see a repeat of huge numbers of players coming to the server even on weekdays, as we experienced during the beginning of the first wave in March and April this year. Hopefully during these coming winter months when more and more people are indoors, regardless of COVID19 status, we will see more traffic throughout the weekends and weekdays.
Well Said@ x4|Al Gore!
5.) Back to your suggestion:
I don't remember how it was in 2018, but I think there were several map orders that year. How long this one was in place?
I can see Hue+Quang Tri and Reclaiming Hue+Quang Tri are placed together.
Don't you think players are going to get bored with too much ground maps going one after another?
Reclaiming Hue is a very long map, should we put quang tri after it?
Hastings + Dart + Khe Sahn - not too many air maps at the beginning? There are many players who prefer ground maps more.
Fall of Saigon + Cedar Falls + Ia Drang - don't you think it's too many large maps to play simultaneously?
Maybe this map order will pass on weekends, but what about weekdays with only few players on?
Do you think 8 players are going to play Irving+Con Thien+Reclaiming?
Unfortunately @Petter-Pang! is not registered on the forum. He has not been in the game since several months. I hope he is okay. @Petter-Pang! and I really like Fall of Saigon and we have discussed this several times. All the player's names that I mentioned have, at some point during the past months expressed desire to play the bottom-of-the-current-maplist-maps such as Fall of Saigon, Quang Tri 1972, and Operation Cedar Falls. I remember Disco specifically asking to play one of the lower maps and he was not happy with Mapvote being spammed by Paranoid and server repeatedly switching back to Operation Hastings before the players can finish playing the remaining maps. It doesn't appear that Disco changed his mind. He simply doesn't like La Drang Valley especially when he is on the NVA Red team.I'm not sure why you keep saying that these players are supporting your idea. How can you possibly know their point of view on that topic? Analyzing in-game chat only?
Although there is a huge imbalance in this map as also in La Drang Vally, I remember the NVA Red team winning this map several times. This was done by successfully defending the higher counts of Red maps, capturing the Blue main air base, and using their aircraft against Blue players and flags, defending or recapturing the tunnels from Blue team, and many more tactics. The same can be said for La Drang Valley. Just in recent weeks the Blue team lost in La Drang Valley because they were unable to hold on to Red flags.On Cedar Falls there's a huge imbalance: US has 2 choppers and 2 planes, and NVA has none. Let's also not forget about the tunnel system (it's 2x more space to walk) and how far US main is from the enemy flags!
I do check Hello server on Gametracker several times everyday including weekdays. Unfortunately most of the times Operation Hastings or another one of the top of the current-maplist-maps is going on. I am BORED to repeatedly play these maps. So either I don't come on Hello on most weekdays, or I go to the other servers.You're requesting this, but you're rarely playing on weekdays yourself?
GameTracker.com : Player Page for x4|Al Gore
Since you have set the server to restart on Operation Hastings after the last player leaves, Mapvote Always ON, and rare maps at the bottom of the list, obviously we will never reach rare maps on weekdays. First you intentionally design it such a way and then you ask "how many times have you seen rare maps being played on weekdays?"? It is unfortunate that the clan leader dislikes several maps on an All Maps Server. Every map is favorite of some player or the other. By removing any maps on any days, you are effectly removing players from the server. So much for increasing traffic!Besides, how many times have you seen rare maps being played on weekdays?
You mentioned that "only 1 team have 1 plane, so players have to fight only on the ground." Please remember that for this specific reason the Red team is equipped with BRDM Malyutka Complex. It is great defensive weapon system. Ask @Jum_P He and I have used it extensively to defend Red flags, take down tanks, and the 1 plane. This is precisely what happened in the actual Vietnam War. The Americans had air power while the North Vietnamese were defending with either crude tactics such as tunnels, or sophisticated weapons such as the SA-7, ZSU, and BRDM Malyutka Complex which were supplied by the communists in China and Soviet Union.On Fall of Saigon flags are located far from each other and only 1 team have 1 plane, so players have to fight only on the ground.
Con Thien is the greatest helicopter map on BFV because of the variety of helicopters available, the terrain, and how the flags are distributed evenly. This is also a fantastic map for "players who prefer ground maps more". Many have been enjoying this map on Hello All Maps Server including myself since 2015 with many past and current players. This map has seen full numbers of players especially on weekends. There is absolutely no reason why this map had to be dropped to the bottom of the list. If I remember correctly, Hello Server's maps did not have expiring tickets until recently. I remember that a map could go on indefinitely unless the players chose to end the map by taking flags to go the next map. Please remember that when players are enjoying a map, and if it "takes too long to play" then this is a good thing.Con Thien have 2 choppers for each team and no jets. And maybe there are enough choppers there, but this map has too many flags and it is not easy to force other team's tickets to bleed. As a result, this map takes too long to play.
Since you have yourself admitted that rare maps are not being played on weekdays (how many times have you seen rare maps being played on weekdays?) then why remove them at all? Mapvotes ON, and setting the server to start on Operation Hastings at all times takes care of your problem, doesn't it? There is no need to remove any maps because you have already set the provisions for majority of players to play whatever maps they wish to play, and the server is always on Operations Hastings when it is empty.By removing some maps on weekdays our server will not stop being All Maps, because everyone will have a chance to play it on weekends, when most people play the game?
First of all, before you grill @LTShaun let me remind you that I never suggested the "idea of bringing back the old map order list from 2018".A little bit more particular about what are you agreeing on with x4|Al Gore? Do you support his idea of bringing back the old map order list from 2018?
This 2018 maplist order was unchanged until 2019. This one was in place long enough because I referred to this list to check which map is next. I referred to it for a long time until you changed the maplist recently.I don't remember how it was in 2018, but I think there were several map orders that year. How long this one was in place?
I agree with you. I never said that this 2018 maplist order was perfect. What I was trying to explain is that during that time (2018), players got to play maps-on-the-bottom-of-the-current-maplist more often than now because they were either on the top or in the middle of the maplist. While my recommended maplist has gathered all the ground maps together, so that "players who prefer ground maps more" get to play all of them at the same time; I also asked you in the conversation: "Could you move the Jungle maps (Cambodia Incursion & Ho Chi Minh Trail) and City maps (Hue - 1968, Quang Tri 1968, Reclaiming Hue, Quang Tri - 1972) maps on the bottom of the list?"I can see Hue+Quang Tri and Reclaiming Hue+Quang Tri are placed together.
Don't you think players are going to get bored with too much ground maps going one after another?
Reclaiming Hue is a very long map, should we put quang tri after it?
So these players "who prefer ground maps more" would also not be happy with starting on Operation Hastings every time and Operation Hastings being voted on repeatedly, correct? Also, according to my recommended maplist from (https://forum.helloclan.eu/conversations/16967/) Khe Sahn is #4 on the list, while Hastings is #15, and Dart is #16, followed by Game Warden as the last map on the list.Hastings + Dart + Khe Sahn - not too many air maps at the beginning? There are many players who prefer ground maps more.
In my recommended maplist from conversation Fall of Saigon is #3, Cedar Falls is #1, and La Drang is #7.Fall of Saigon + Cedar Falls + Ia Drang - don't you think it's too many large maps to play simultaneously?
First of all, in my recommended list in conversation Irving is #1, Con Thien is #5, and Reclaiming is #11.Maybe this map order will pass on weekends, but what about weekdays with only few players on?
Do you think 8 players are going to play Irving+Con Thien+Reclaiming?
Unfortunately Peter Pang is not registered on the forum.
All the player's names that I mentioned have, at some point during the past months expressed desire to play the bottom-of-the-current-maplist-maps such as Fall of Saigon, Quang Tri 1972, and Operation Cedar Falls. I remember Disco specifically asking to play one of the lower maps and he was not happy with Mapvote being spammed by Paranoid and server repeatedly switching back to Operation Hastings before the players can finish playing the remaining maps. It doesn't appear that Disco changed his mind. He simply doesn't like La Drang Valley especially when he is on the NVA Red team.
I can go in to chatlogs from weeks and months ago to find proof but it will take a lot of time. You can also note from the chatlog that he pretends that he is not registered on the forum while in fact he is playing with a different name.
I cannot speak for the rest of players such as @mRoRange and @hard_rice both have expressed desire to play lower maps at some point during the past weeks/months. Why they are not joining this conversation nor supporting my calls? Perhaps they are afraid of not crossing the clan leader. They probably see that my lone attempt have not been successful so why would they join me? Better to stay out of this discussion and let the clan leader do whatever he wants right? If this server is eventually removing all maps and going the HHK-Helokillers - Operation Hastings Only Server and they are okay with that, then fine!
Although there is a huge imbalance in this map as also in La Drang Vally, I remember the NVA Red team winning this map several times. This was done by successfully defending the higher counts of Red maps, capturing the Blue main air base, and using their aircraft against Blue players and flags, defending or recapturing the tunnels from Blue team, and many more tactics. The same can be said for La Drang Valley. Just in recent weeks the Blue team lost in La Drang Valley because they were unable to hold on to Red flags.
I do check Hello server on Gametracker several times everyday including weekdays. Unfortunately most of the times Operation Hastings or another one of the top of the current-maplist-maps is going on. I am BORED to repeatedly play these maps. So either I don't come on Hello on most weekdays, or I go to the other servers.
Since you have set the server to restart on Operation Hastings after the last player leaves, Mapvote Always ON, and rare maps at the bottom of the list, obviously we will never reach rare maps on weekdays. First you intentionally design it such a way and then you ask "how many times have you seen rare maps being played on weekdays?"? It is unfortunate that the clan leader dislikes several maps on an All Maps Server. Every map is favorite of some player or the other. By removing any maps on any days, you are effectly removing players from the server. So much for increasing traffic!
You mentioned that "only 1 team have 1 plane, so players have to fight only on the ground." Please remember that for this specific reason the Red team is equipped with BRDM Malyutka Complex. It is great defensive weapon system. Ask @Jum_P He and I have used it extensively to defend Red flags, take down tanks, and the 1 plane. This is precisely what happened in the actual Vietnam War. The Americans had air power while the North Vietnamese were defending with either crude tactics such as tunnels, or sophisticated weapons such as the SA-7, ZSU, and BRDM Malyutka Complex which were supplied by the communists in China and Soviet Union.
Con Thien is the greatest helicopter map on BFV because of the variety of helicopters available, the terrain, and how the flags are distributed evenly. This is also a fantastic map for "players who prefer ground maps more". Many have been enjoying this map on Hello All Maps Server including myself since 2015 with many past and current players. This map has seen full numbers of players especially on weekends. There is absolutely no reason why this map had to be dropped to the bottom of the list. If I remember correctly, Hello Server's maps did not have expiring tickets until recently. I remember that a map could go on indefinitely unless the players chose to end the map by taking flags to go the next map. Please remember that when players are enjoying a map, and if it "takes too long to play" then this is a good thing.
First of all, before you grill @LTShaun
Can you please reintroduce AIR *LARGE* maps at least in the center (middle) of the list so that we can play them again? Thank you! Attached pictures of map list from 2018 and current map list. IMO the previous map list from 2018 was just fine because we got to play ALL MAPS and Map Vote Turned Off.
I never said that this 2018 maplist order was perfect.
... let me remind you that I never suggested the "idea of bringing back the old map order list from 2018".
I only showed a picture of the old map list from 2018 as a reference to which maps were being played more often those days, and now do not get played as often because they have been dropped to the bottom of the list in the current (2020) maplist.
If you remember, on October 10th this year, less than a month ago, I recommended a new map list with details in (helloclan.eu/conversations/16967/) which you said you did not understand and asked be brought to this general forum for public discussion.
From conversation:
"Here are my recommendations for a new map list:
0 Operation Irving
1 Operation Cedar Falls
2 Fall of Lang Vei
3 Fall of Saigon
4 Siege of Khe Sahn
5 Defense of Con Thien
6 Saigon - 1968
7 The la Drang Valley
8 Quang Tri - 1968
9 Quang Tri - 1972
10 Hue - 1968
11 Reclaiming Hue
12 Cambodian Incursion
13 Ho Chi Minh Trail
14 Landing Zone Albany
15 Operation Hastings
16 Operation Flaming Dart
17 Operation Game Warden
"
While my recommended maplist has gathered all the ground maps together, so that "players who prefer ground maps more" get to play all of them at the same time; I also asked you in the conversation: "Could you move the Jungle maps (Cambodia Incursion & Ho Chi Minh Trail) and City maps (Hue - 1968, Quang Tri 1968, Reclaiming Hue, Quang Tri - 1972) maps on the bottom of the list?"
Here's my suggestion from the conversation: "Is it possible that you could reshuffle the map list in such a way that players can once again experience other maps that are currently in the lower part of the map list which we never get to play? Everyone leaves by the time we reach middle maps, or a successful "Operation Hastings" Map Vote restarts the map cycle to the first map on the list."
In my recommended maplist from conversation Fall of Saigon is #3, Cedar Falls is #1, and La Drang is #7.
First of all, in my recommended list in conversation Irving is #1, Con Thien is #5, and Reclaiming is #11.
Attached pics of how the maps used to be two years ago and now. I really liked it that way it was two years ago.
@hard_rice was correct! I hope you and will go back to your opinion about mapvote and turn it off. I admit that I was wrong to recommend turning it on. It has become a constant spam problem. Some players who are known to be deliberately trying to disrupt this server have used it as a tool to annoy and force other players to leave by spamming the mapvote repeatedly until finally when enough genuine players leave and then the vote goes through and the disruptor wins.
Dear Admins,
Please re-enable Map Vote. Most of the times there are few players online and during such times, most of the players are in favor to end current map, in order to get to a preferred map. Sometimes we want to fly helicopters, sometimes we want to fly fighter jets, sometimes we want a river map, sometimes we are in the mood to play like land maps with no aircraft. Please bring back democracy! You can set the Map Vote to a high number % to make sure that almost all the players want to change the map. You can tweek this number over time. I would also like to enable Kick Vote but that's a separate topic. Thanks!
Finally the good news is that a few other interesting BFV servers have popped up recently. Upon your request I worked on a long and detailed SSM suggestion which turned out to be a complete waste of time. But other new SSM servers recently started and they are a lot of fun. There is at least one BFV MOD servers which is a ton of fun.
I believe we both have the same interest of increasing traffic. Our difference is that I want to bring back old players who prefer All Maps, while you prefer to appease new disruptive players so that they stay longer as has happened recently.
here you hit right to the point, he just doesn't want to change anything, despite the fact that when you offer him an option, he says that it is useless, why then even talk about some kind of change in the gaming experience?
In all previous comments in this thread I tried to tag @Petter-Pang! with @ symbol before his name his name did not appear as it does for other players. I had forgotten that Peter Pang! was registered on this forum until you showed the thread today. I also realize that I have been misspelling his name as Peter while it is actually Petter. Even now when I tried to tag him with @ Petter is is not showing up. I finally figured out how code it manually but I doubt if he will still receive a notification because he has not been seen on the forum since March this year. If you see this @Petter-Pang! please read above comments in this thread where I mentioned your name with a spelling mistake.But you were replying to his post in this thread: I couldn't believe it ??...
I agree with you, and you are correct about not taking in-game chat conversations seriously. Disco's U-turn, and other players not responding to this thread proved this point. Lesson learned!The problem is, players do not take in-game chat seriously and can say one thing on one day, and completely different opinion on the same thing on another day.
That's why all important discussions must take place only on our forum. He was never registered here. And despite your invitation to support your idea on forums, he's still not here, so so far I can see only your vote for this.
All mighty indeed!Let's ask them if they are reading this!
Hey guys, mRoRange and hard_rice! Are you really afraid of crossing me, the all-mighty Clan Leader?
It is funny how you admins claim to ask for feedback and when one person does, he is pushed back. Do you think any other player is now encouraged to voice his/her ideas, suggestions, or feedback after seeing the response I got? Doubtful!It doesn't matter really what I think about this or what you think, it's all speculations for now. The quantity of players on our server and what maps the majority prefer is matters.
I remember in the past when all the players left the server and the server was empty, the map remained where the players left, until the next player joined the game and that map continued from there. Intentional design meaning, its probably something to do with changes you or previous admins made to tickets which now forces a map to end; and another server setting that resets the game to the first map on the maplist when the last player leaves from any other map. This gives more gameplay to one particular map instead of allowing players to play other maps from where they left off. Before it was not like this.I didn't set the server to restart on Operation Hastings! Why are you lying that I "intentionally design it such a way"?
Operation Hastings is first in the list because it's the most popular map on the server and it was first for many many years, way before I stepped in, when SK and IceSkater were around.
I had forgotten to copy paste my recommended maplist from conversation to this thread, until you claimed to LtShaun that I wanted the 2018 maplist back which is not true. You assumed that I wanted the 2018 maplist back simply because I posted a picture of it. If I post a picture of the maplist of 2005, that doesn't mean I want that exact order of maplist back.First 2018 map list was "just fine", than it's "not perfect", then "I never suggested the "idea of bringing back the old map order list from 2018"" and then you "showed a picture of the old map list as a reference".
I said it was "just fine" meaning better than the current maplist, because those days we got to play ALL MAPS and the MapVote was OFF. I never asked you said to bring the 2018 maplist back. You assumed that I wanted the 2018 maplist back even though you I had sent a different maplist in the conversation.So what is it exactly?
Not only did I find this thread about map vote topic, but I also posted a link to my own comment, which you so graciously copy pastedOh, since you found this thread about map vote topic, I can also put here your previous reply about your point of view regarding map vote:
Yes because as @hard_rice and you said last year, some players misuse mapvote. When I asked to bring back democracy, I did not foresee that an election will be initiated every 180 seconds repeatedly after most players vote NO every time. When this started to happen, I understood that Hard Rice was correct about the abuse of mapvote.I heard you and other players back then when you were saying "Please bring back democracy!" and I turned the map vote on.
Looking back to your posts:
The benefits of map voting are obvious when there are only few players online, no doubts. However, how @hard_rice@ mentioned, it is a subject for a constant abuse. As you can see even from this old thread, there were many attempts to re-enable it, but every attempt failed due to the malicious usage of it. Yes, you can set the map vote to a high %, but there's no standard option to change time periods between votes, which is now about 180 seconds. I haven't looked thoroughly into this mechanism yet, so if somebody knows how to change it safely, post it here and maybe map voting will live again!
---As for now, I can suggest the only option available: if there are only few players on the server and everybody wants to get map changed, try to ask an admin for that. Even if it seems there are currently no admins online, they may hear you anyway through remote application. I am sure they won't refuse of such request!What a contrast from Dec 2019 to Oct 2020 on mapvote abuse.And it appears that even spam map votes cannot shadow the main advantage of the voting system.
"boring maps" according to whom? There is no such thing as a "boring map" on an All Maps Server. Since there is open bias against some maps, it is not hard to see what is going on:Now you are suggesting to turn it off just because you and a few other players (which is still unconfirmed, so it's only you for now) don't have a chance to play some boring maps?
- U-turn on mapvote abuse.
- So-called-"boring maps" are now at the bottom of current maplist, which are unreachable since months with or without many players. (Quang Tri 1972 & Operation Cedar Falls)
- % of a Yes votes in mapvote reduced to make it easier to change to another map which disrupts map-order flow.
- Complaints about disruptive players abusing mapvote being unanswered. This serves the purpose of preventing the so-called-"boring maps" from coming on, due to repeated spam mapvotes every 180 seconds.
- Removing so-called-"boring maps" from the server on weekdays even with:
- Mapvote ON.
- So-called-"boring maps" being at the bottom of current maplist.
- Operation Hastings always on when server is empty.
- Repeated mapvote abuse going on weekdays too.
I like to play All Maps, and All Maps are my favorite including Hastings, Dart, Saigon 1968, etc. This is precisely what brought me to Hello server many years ago. Sometimes I miss playing air maps when ground maps are going on for too long. In the same way when I notice Hastings being played repeatedly then that also causes map fatigue.It looks like your only interest is to enforce certain server changes so you could play your favorite maps, despite what the rest of our players think about it. That's why your initial proposal were made in conversation message, addressed to admins only, and not in the public thread.
I only initiated this request after other players expressed similar interests while we were in the game. As I said above, they may not be notified about this thread, or are overlooking their notifications, or have changed their mind, or are too intimidated (afraid) to agree with me looking at the reception that I have received in this thread. (Fear tactics). We can see above that when @LTShaun and @Pipiska Cheburator liked or agreed with my suggestions, you immediately went after them. @mRoRange recently experienced something similar when there was an attempt to publicly embarrass him on this forum for his in game comments about hacking. I think he handled it very well being a long time BFV veteran.
I suggest:I didn't understand, and somehow I have a feeling that the rest of our users also didn't understand what were you trying to say exactly, maybe that's why no one agrees with you? I am kind of tired of guessing what are you trying to say here, so how about in your next post you make your final suggestion, if you still want to suggest something, simple and understandable. Like so?:
Very cool. Here are some pics from RR server in 2005. I replaced Mig17 and Corsair with AC-47s for both teams in Flaming Dart and Hastings. It was a lot of fun. The pilot circled enemy flags while the two gunners on the left fired at infantry and jeeps. Check out pics below:here you hit right to the point, he just doesn't want to change anything, despite the fact that when you offer him an option, he says that it is useless, why then even talk about some kind of change in the gaming experience?
Very cool. Here are some pics from RR server in 2005. I replaced Mig17 and Corsair with AC-47s for both teams in Flaming Dart and Hastings. It was a lot of fun. The pilot circled enemy flags while the two gunners on the left fired at infantry and jeeps. Check out pics below:
It is funny how you admins claim to ask for feedback and when one person does, he is pushed back. Do you think any other player is now encouraged to voice his/her ideas, suggestions, or feedback after seeing the response I got? Doubtful!
There are all i can say to you and i have no more words, If you agree just tell me - i send you it. if no there nothing more for me to do here
i want to play it on hello with many people
August 2023 blog update! Click here!