Your ideas: Customizing game experience

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

Post here your suggestions regarding this topic: https://forum.helloclan.eu/threads/8972/ !

 

[paranoid]

New weapons kit will be cool too...

 

[BassToss]

Hello,

1/Why not set up a new map order every month? All maps could get a chance to be played when the server is full of players.


2/Your idea (in game chat, last week) to put a Slick on "landing zone albany" is great, i waiting for it!
Your custom combat ideas are good and im sad to not see them applied...
My custom combat suggestion: "Fall of saigon", with Huey slicks in each team replacing tanks or jeeps (imagine a big air huey slick battle with many gunners!!)

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

Hey!

1) That would be a complicated thing to do every month... To set a good map list you should take into consideration many factors such as difference in active player base on different day of the week and time of the day (there are much more players on weekends, etc), map type (map size, air/ground type of map, popular/unpopular kind of map), etc. There should be some kind of "universal" map list, so it could be suited well enough to hold as much players as much longer on daily basis, regardless of current date and time...

For example, if you put a large map (Fall of Saigon?) on any of the first 3-4(?) positions of the map list, more likely players will leave rather than play it, if players number is low at the beginning. The same applies if there are too many ground maps in map order placed together, or 2+ large maps together (Fall of Saigon - LZA - Ia Drand Valley?).

For several months now I've been experimenting with map orders on the server so it could be good enough for everyday use. This is the current one:

operation_hastings AIR-----------------------|
hue Ground----------------------------------|------No large maps to accumulate enough players in the beginning of daily game sessions
saigon68 AIR----------------------------------|===Air/Ground/Air types of maps mixed among each other
ho_chi_minh_trail_alt Ground Jungle-------|===
lang_vei AIR-----------------------------------|
quang_tri_alt Ground------------------------|
operation_flaming_dart AIR-------------------|===Plenty of air vehicles, and though this map is pretty large, it's good enough for low numbers anyway
landing_zone_albany Ground *LARGE*-----|=======< 2 Large maps together, Air+Ground, placed in the middle of the list
ia_drang AIR *LARGE*-------------------------|======< so player numbers could recover if dropped
khe_sahn AIR----------------------------------|===Large maps are mixed with normal-sized
defense_of_con_thien AIR *LARGE*-----------|===Ground maps are placed between air maps
hue_alt Ground-------------------------------|
fall_of_saigon AIR *LARGE*--------------------|
operation_game_warden AIR-----------------|
ho_chi_minh_trail Ground Jungle--------------|
operation_irving AIR *LARGE*----------------|
quang_tri Ground-------------------------------|
operation_cedar_falls AIR *LARGE*-----------|

So far this map list showed good efficiency, and quite often player numbers could even hold for more than one cycle of this map order.

If you or any other players have any ideas what can be changed in this map order, please, make suggestions here. I tried many other variations and now I am out of ideas, perhaps you can figure out something better than it is now.

There were also many suggestions in the past to remove some maps from rotation, but it's not the solution. There are players out there who like even unpopular maps, so our server will stay as it is for now, AllMaps.

2) Actually, I have already tested heli on LZA one day, you must've been missed it Though there were some troubles with tunnels that day, so maybe I give this another run one day

Thanks, I was trying to bring something new and fresh in this game with custom combat options, but, as you see, there are not many suggestions or feedbacks here, so it's not going active enough as it could be going. Last time I was trying to figure out how the paranoid's idea about different kits could be implemented, but it's too complicated, so not sure if it is even possible.

Hey, good thinking about some helis on Fall of Saigon, I was thinking about that too! Without AC-47 (ah, what the hell, even with this plane) it looks like a ground map, that is even larger than LZA. Would be interesting to see how it would go with some fast transportation air vehicles, perhaps more players would like it in this way.

Do you suggest to place 2-3 slicks on each main base or 1 at each flag? Don't you think it would lead to capturing a main base by one team, so they would gain dominance in air and immediately capture the rest of the flags, so map would end quickly?
Or maybe it would be also good to make mains uncapturable? In this case map would take even longer, so players might also start leaving.
There's also possible to place huey assault and slick on USA and MI8+Mi8Cargo on NVA like on Game Warden.

There are many possible variations of this, we gotta take the best one, so it would balance the gameplay and take enough time to end this map and proceed to the next one (20-40 min round?).
What do you think?

 

[BassToss]

Yep my suggestion was to place 2-3 slicks on each main base! You can also place zsu in each main base to defend them. I Can't wait to play it!

 

[hard_rice]

How about no excessive air main rape even when it is allowed because it drives people off just so some certain individuals like to rack up their score?

After all don't we want people to stay on the server and play?

 

[.BR.IRON MAN]

something I liked in the modified kits when the NVAs had a first aid bag, very useful hehehehe

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

@ BassToss, I'll look into it when I have more free time

@ hard_rice, this is the thread for gameplay changes suggestions. If you would like to propose a rule change suggestion, you can create a separate thread in general forum section so we could see what other players think of that

 

[x4|Al Gore]

Dear @[RUS]WàrrióR
First of all thank you for taking the time and initiative to add more fun to maps. My suggestions below:

1. All Ground & Air Maps: The BRDM Malyutka Complex is such a great defensive weapon system and the most state of the art system that NVA had. Unfortunately it is only featured in Fall of Saigon. @Petter-Pang! and I both love Fall of Saigon because of BRDM and AC-47.
2. Operation Irving: Please add BDRM back to the NVA side in Operation Irving as you did a few months ago. Many of us enjoyed when you did that. That was a lot of fun
3. Operation Flaming Dart: As a trial please add AC-47 bomber to Blue team if possible as a counter to NVA's Mig17 bomber in Operation Flaming Dart. We all know how NVA's Mig17's constantly destroy Blue team's towers easily but Blue team's A7 is not really as agile and doesn't have the numerous bombs that Mig17 has. Although AC-47 is very slow, it is equipped with numerous bombs and the dual gatling guns on its left side can do heavy damage to NVA's infantry with good gunners and good pilots who know how to circle enemy flags.
4. Operation Flaming Dart: Please add KA-25 Hormone to NVA in Operation Flaming Dart to replace the two MI-8's which are easy target for Blue team's F4's. Two KA-25's are better counter helis to the two Cobras of Blue team. Both have heat seeking missiles. Both helis have pros and cons but they are an almost even match if you add them up. Cobra has many advantages of it's slim design, fast speed, and it's co-pilot has machine gun. Hormone is slower, fatter, and it's co-pilot doesn't have machine gun but it has radar which is very helpful in self defense and locating trouble makers.
5. Operation Flaming Dart: Please add a spawn Mi-8 heli to NVA team in Operation Flaming Dart as a counter to Blue team's ACH-47 Chinook heli. Currently Blue team has three helis while NVA has only two.
6. Operation Flaming Dart: Please replace jeeps with BRDM to both teams in Operation Flaming Dart as main and flag defenses, especially when all flags are lost and main is about to be raped by "certain individuals like to rack up their score" mercilessly as rightly pointed out by @hard_rice . Raping is such a shame because many players quit and this ends the maps prematurely. I have raped mains when opposite team has lost all flags, only as a response to my main being raped earlier. I try no to do this anymore because some players on the opposite team needlessly end up paying getting fragged repeatedly for their selfish teammate's earlier rape of my main. I believe making new rules < than equipping teams with proper defenses.
7. Operation Hastings: Please replace jeeps with BRDM to both teams in Operation Hastings as main and flag air defenses, especially when all flags are lost and main is about to be raped by "certain individuals like to rack up their score" mercilessly as rightly pointed out by @hard_rice .
8. All Ground Maps: Please add spawn-tunnels and spawn-boxes to ground maps especially if you are going to add Huey-Slicks to ground maps.
9. Operation Cedar Falls: Please add at least two KA-25's and two A1 Skyraider (in 2 versions; one for anti-infantry MGs and napalm that Blue team has) to NVA team in Operation Cedar Falls. This will make the map more balanced and turn this huge map into a both ground map and air map satisfying all players. There are flat empty areas on the NE and NW of the map which can house a new airbase for NVA.
10. Operation Cedar Falls: Please make one underground tunnel flag as Blue and the other as Red at the start of Operation Cedar Falls. This will encourage both team's players to spawn underground and try to capture the other flag.
11. Operation Cedar Falls: Again please replace at least some of the jeeps in Operation Cedar Falls with BRDM for NVA and anti-aircraft MUTT-Jeep or M35A1 Nancy for Blue team.
12. Operation Game Warden: Blue main is equipped with M55 Quad and an anti-aircraft MUTT but there are not air defenses for NVA main. Please add BRDM to NVA main and NVA flags instead of Jeeps as a counter to Blue main's air defenses.
13. Siege of Khe Sahn: Please add two spawn-boxes near Blue team flags in Siege of Khe Sahn. This will counter to at least two spawn-tunnels that NVA flags get..
14. Fall of Lang Vei: Fall of Lang Vei is a great balanced map but raping mains is very common in this map. It would be great to equip both mains with BRDM as a deterrent to raping. I think this is a better alternative to making the mains unconquerable.
15. Fall of Lang Vei: In order to balance out both teams, please add two spawn-boxes near Blue team flags in Fall of Lang Vei. This will counter to the two spawn tunnels that NVA team flags get.
16. The la Drang Valley: Please add BRDM to NVA flags to help counter Blue team's overwhelming air power. SA-7s and ZSU are easily overcome by Blue team's Hueys, Chinook ACH-47, and F4.
17. The la Drang Valley: Please add an airbase for NVA equipped with one KA-25, one Mi-8,, one spawn-Mi-8, and one Mig21 to counter Blue team's air power.
18. The la Drang Valley: Please add an anti-aircraft MUTT and M35A1 Nancy to Blue main for air defense to NVA's new aircraft. The current Sheridan tanks mostly sits idle in Blue main. It can stay if you like or replace with air defense vehicles.
19. The la Drang Valley: If a new NVA airbase is added to this map, please make both teams have equal number of flags or close to balance the teams.
20. Saigon 1968: Please replace Blue team's Huey-Slick with a Huey to counter NVA's Mi-8.
21. Saigon 1968: Please add as a second heli for NVA team in the form of KA-25 and an OH-6 Loach to Blue team. Blue main already has two helipads but only one is used. One more helipad will be needed for NVA main to match both teams.
22. Saigon 1968: Please add replace at least one NVA flag Jeep with a BDRM as a counter to Blue team's M35A1 Nancy.
23. Defense of Con Thien: Blue main is equipped with M55 Quad and an anti-aircraft MUTT but there are not air defenses for NVA main. Please add a BRDM and a M55 Quad in NVA main to match both teams.
24. Defense of Con Thien: In the middle of the two southernmost NVA flags are three M-46 artillery guns pointed towards South (Blue flags). Please add three M-110 artillery guns on the northernmost Blue flag pointing towards North (Red flags). If players man these on both sides, there can be great artillery battles on this map. Please make all artillery guns with infinite ammo.
25. Reclaiming Hue: It will be so much more fun if both teams are equipped with NVA side having two KA-25s and two BDRM, and Blue team with two OH-6 Loach and two anti aircraft MUTTs.
26. Hue 1968: Same as Reclaiming Hue it will be great fun if both teams are equipped with NVA side having two KA-25s and two BDRM, and Blue team with two OH-6 Loach and two anti aircraft MUTTs.
27. Cambodian Incursion: Please add two M-110 artillery with indestructible and infinite ammo at the first Blue flag pointing towards the NVA main. Let both teams fire each other and may the best team win. Please make all artillery guns with infinite ammo.
28. Ho Chi Minh Trail: Add three M-110 artillery guns on the other side of the river facing the Temple-Palace's M-46 artillery guns and make these too indestructible damage and infinite ammo. Once the Blue team captures the first NVA flag, they take over over the M-110 artillery guns and fire on the other side of the river. Please make all artillery guns with infinite ammo.

Thanks again!

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

Whoa, that's some list! Good job! I will definitely look into it when I have more time and will make a more detailed reply.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

Dear @[RUS]WàrrióR
First of all thank you for taking the time and initiative to add more fun to maps. My suggestions below:

1. All Ground & Air Maps: The BRDM Malyutka Complex is such a great defensive weapon system and the most state of the art system that NVA had. Unfortunately it is only featured in Fall of Saigon. @Petter-Pang! and I both love Fall of Saigon because of BRDM and AC-47.
2. Operation Irving: Please add BDRM back to the NVA side in Operation Irving as you did a few months ago. Many of us enjoyed when you did that. That was a lot of fun
3. Operation Flaming Dart: As a trial please add AC-47 bomber to Blue team if possible as a counter to NVA's Mig17 bomber in Operation Flaming Dart. We all know how NVA's Mig17's constantly destroy Blue team's towers easily but Blue team's A7 is not really as agile and doesn't have the numerous bombs that Mig17 has. Although AC-47 is very slow, it is equipped with numerous bombs and the dual gatling guns on its left side can do heavy damage to NVA's infantry with good gunners and good pilots who know how to circle enemy flags.
4. Operation Flaming Dart: Please add KA-25 Hormone to NVA in Operation Flaming Dart to replace the two MI-8's which are easy target for Blue team's F4's. Two KA-25's are better counter helis to the two Cobras of Blue team. Both have heat seeking missiles. Both helis have pros and cons but they are an almost even match if you add them up. Cobra has many advantages of it's slim design, fast speed, and it's co-pilot has machine gun. Hormone is slower, fatter, and it's co-pilot doesn't have machine gun but it has radar which is very helpful in self defense and locating trouble makers.
5. Operation Flaming Dart: Please add a spawn Mi-8 heli to NVA team in Operation Flaming Dart as a counter to Blue team's ACH-47 Chinook heli. Currently Blue team has three helis while NVA has only two.
6. Operation Flaming Dart: Please replace jeeps with BRDM to both teams in Operation Flaming Dart as main and flag defenses, especially when all flags are lost and main is about to be raped by "certain individuals like to rack up their score" mercilessly as rightly pointed out by @hard_rice . Raping is such a shame because many players quit and this ends the maps prematurely. I have raped mains when opposite team has lost all flags, only as a response to my main being raped earlier. I try no to do this anymore because some players on the opposite team needlessly end up paying getting fragged repeatedly for their selfish teammate's earlier rape of my main. I believe making new rules < than equipping teams with proper defenses.
7. Operation Hastings: Please replace jeeps with BRDM to both teams in Operation Hastings as main and flag air defenses, especially when all flags are lost and main is about to be raped by "certain individuals like to rack up their score" mercilessly as rightly pointed out by @hard_rice .
8. All Ground Maps: Please add spawn-tunnels and spawn-boxes to ground maps especially if you are going to add Huey-Slicks to ground maps.
9. Operation Cedar Falls: Please add at least two KA-25's and two A1 Skyraider (in 2 versions; one for anti-infantry MGs and napalm that Blue team has) to NVA team in Operation Cedar Falls. This will make the map more balanced and turn this huge map into a both ground map and air map satisfying all players. There are flat empty areas on the NE and NW of the map which can house a new airbase for NVA.
10. Operation Cedar Falls: Please make one underground tunnel flag as Blue and the other as Red at the start of Operation Cedar Falls. This will encourage both team's players to spawn underground and try to capture the other flag.
11. Operation Cedar Falls: Again please replace at least some of the jeeps in Operation Cedar Falls with BRDM for NVA and anti-aircraft MUTT-Jeep or M35A1 Nancy for Blue team.
12. Operation Game Warden: Blue main is equipped with M55 Quad and an anti-aircraft MUTT but there are not air defenses for NVA main. Please add BRDM to NVA main and NVA flags instead of Jeeps as a counter to Blue main's air defenses.
13. Siege of Khe Sahn: Please add two spawn-boxes near Blue team flags in Siege of Khe Sahn. This will counter to at least two spawn-tunnels that NVA flags get..
14. Fall of Lang Vei: Fall of Lang Vei is a great balanced map but raping mains is very common in this map. It would be great to equip both mains with BRDM as a deterrent to raping. I think this is a better alternative to making the mains unconquerable.
15. Fall of Lang Vei: In order to balance out both teams, please add two spawn-boxes near Blue team flags in Fall of Lang Vei. This will counter to the two spawn tunnels that NVA team flags get.
16. The la Drang Valley: Please add BRDM to NVA flags to help counter Blue team's overwhelming air power. SA-7s and ZSU are easily overcome by Blue team's Hueys, Chinook ACH-47, and F4.
17. The la Drang Valley: Please add an airbase for NVA equipped with one KA-25, one Mi-8,, one spawn-Mi-8, and one Mig21 to counter Blue team's air power.
18. The la Drang Valley: Please add an anti-aircraft MUTT and M35A1 Nancy to Blue main for air defense to NVA's new aircraft. The current Sheridan tanks mostly sits idle in Blue main. It can stay if you like or replace with air defense vehicles.
19. The la Drang Valley: If a new NVA airbase is added to this map, please make both teams have equal number of flags or close to balance the teams.
20. Saigon 1968: Please replace Blue team's Huey-Slick with a Huey to counter NVA's Mi-8.
21. Saigon 1968: Please add as a second heli for NVA team in the form of KA-25 and an OH-6 Loach to Blue team. Blue main already has two helipads but only one is used. One more helipad will be needed for NVA main to match both teams.
22. Saigon 1968: Please add replace at least one NVA flag Jeep with a BDRM as a counter to Blue team's M35A1 Nancy.
23. Defense of Con Thien: Blue main is equipped with M55 Quad and an anti-aircraft MUTT but there are not air defenses for NVA main. Please add a BRDM and a M55 Quad in NVA main to match both teams.
24. Defense of Con Thien: In the middle of the two southernmost NVA flags are three M-46 artillery guns pointed towards South (Blue flags). Please add three M-110 artillery guns on the northernmost Blue flag pointing towards North (Red flags). If players man these on both sides, there can be great artillery battles on this map. Please make all artillery guns with infinite ammo.
25. Reclaiming Hue: It will be so much more fun if both teams are equipped with NVA side having two KA-25s and two BDRM, and Blue team with two OH-6 Loach and two anti aircraft MUTTs.
26. Hue 1968: Same as Reclaiming Hue it will be great fun if both teams are equipped with NVA side having two KA-25s and two BDRM, and Blue team with two OH-6 Loach and two anti aircraft MUTTs.
27. Cambodian Incursion: Please add two M-110 artillery with indestructible and infinite ammo at the first Blue flag pointing towards the NVA main. Let both teams fire each other and may the best team win. Please make all artillery guns with infinite ammo.
28. Ho Chi Minh Trail: Add three M-110 artillery guns on the other side of the river facing the Temple-Palace's M-46 artillery guns and make these too indestructible damage and infinite ammo. Once the Blue team captures the first NVA flag, they take over over the M-110 artillery guns and fire on the other side of the river. Please make all artillery guns with infinite ammo.

Thanks again!

Update: I made some changes and added a few points.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

Hey!

1) That would be a complicated thing to do every month... To set a good map list you should take into consideration many factors such as difference in active player base on different day of the week and time of the day (there are much more players on weekends, etc), map type (map size, air/ground type of map, popular/unpopular kind of map), etc. There should be some kind of "universal" map list, so it could be suited well enough to hold as much players as much longer on daily basis, regardless of current date and time...

For example, if you put a large map (Fall of Saigon?) on any of the first 3-4(?) positions of the map list, more likely players will leave rather than play it, if players number is low at the beginning. The same applies if there are too many ground maps in map order placed together, or 2+ large maps together (Fall of Saigon - LZA - Ia Drand Valley?).

For several months now I've been experimenting with map orders on the server so it could be good enough for everyday use. This is the current one:

operation_hastings AIR-----------------------|
hue Ground----------------------------------|------No large maps to accumulate enough players in the beginning of daily game sessions
saigon68 AIR----------------------------------|===Air/Ground/Air types of maps mixed among each other
ho_chi_minh_trail_alt Ground Jungle-------|===
lang_vei AIR-----------------------------------|
quang_tri_alt Ground------------------------|
operation_flaming_dart AIR-------------------|===Plenty of air vehicles, and though this map is pretty large, it's good enough for low numbers anyway
landing_zone_albany Ground *LARGE*-----|=======< 2 Large maps together, Air+Ground, placed in the middle of the list
ia_drang AIR *LARGE*-------------------------|======< so player numbers could recover if dropped
khe_sahn AIR----------------------------------|===Large maps are mixed with normal-sized
defense_of_con_thien AIR *LARGE*-----------|===Ground maps are placed between air maps
hue_alt Ground-------------------------------|
fall_of_saigon AIR *LARGE*--------------------|
operation_game_warden AIR-----------------|
ho_chi_minh_trail Ground Jungle--------------|
operation_irving AIR *LARGE*----------------|
quang_tri Ground-------------------------------|
operation_cedar_falls AIR *LARGE*-----------|

So far this map list showed good efficiency, and quite often player numbers could even hold for more than one cycle of this map order.

If you or any other players have any ideas what can be changed in this map order, please, make suggestions here. I tried many other variations and now I am out of ideas, perhaps you can figure out something better than it is now.

There were also many suggestions in the past to remove some maps from rotation, but it's not the solution. There are players out there who like even unpopular maps, so our server will stay as it is for now, AllMaps.

2) Actually, I have already tested heli on LZA one day, you must've been missed it Though there were some troubles with tunnels that day, so maybe I give this another run one day

Thanks, I was trying to bring something new and fresh in this game with custom combat options, but, as you see, there are not many suggestions or feedbacks here, so it's not going active enough as it could be going. Last time I was trying to figure out how the paranoid's idea about different kits could be implemented, but it's too complicated, so not sure if it is even possible.

Hey, good thinking about some helis on Fall of Saigon, I was thinking about that too! Without AC-47 (ah, what the hell, even with this plane) it looks like a ground map, that is even larger than LZA. Would be interesting to see how it would go with some fast transportation air vehicles, perhaps more players would like it in this way.

Do you suggest to place 2-3 slicks on each main base or 1 at each flag? Don't you think it would lead to capturing a main base by one team, so they would gain dominance in air and immediately capture the rest of the flags, so map would end quickly?
Or maybe it would be also good to make mains uncapturable? In this case map would take even longer, so players might also start leaving.
There's also possible to place huey assault and slick on USA and MI8+Mi8Cargo on NVA like on Game Warden.

There are many possible variations of this, we gotta take the best one, so it would balance the gameplay and take enough time to end this map and proceed to the next one (20-40 min round?).
What do you think?

Ever since the map orders were changed, several players including @mRoRange, DiscoMagpie, @hard_rice, Petter-PANG! and I have noticed that we do not reach AIR, AIR *LARGE* and even a Ground map have not been played since many months because it is a the bottom of the current map order. This is happening because when the map rotation is going on, a few players will Map Vote Operation Hastings (which is on the top of the map order) and the rotation resets to the beginning repeatedly every time there is a successful Map Vote for Operation Hastings. So other players can never reach the maps on bottom of the current map order. Can you please reintroduce AIR *LARGE* maps at least in the center (middle) of the list so that we can play them again? Thank you! Attached pictures of map list from 2018 and current map list. IMO the previous map list from 2018 was just fine because we got to play ALL MAPS and Map Vote Turned Off.

 

[LTShaun]

[RUS]WàrrióR

I think this server would benefit on SSM for all of the maps just to make things more interesting...I see players leave because they are board of playing the same old rotation of Hastings, Hue, Saigon, Repeat! If we can make some of the other maps more interesting then we may be able to keep players on the server for the full map rotation. See attached modified Quang Tri 1968, This one was quite popular ten years ago when it would rotate on [TKO] Tactical Knock Out, we also had SSM on Reclaiming Hue, Fall Of Saigon, etc...adding more vehicles, choppers, custom weapons...Let me know what you think.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WXxfwwXRVb8XhafeiBnJCqCrQI1qITYK/view?usp=sharing

Regards, Shaun.

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

Hey x4|Al Gore.

This topic you would like to discuss on is very complicated.
I tried to answer to your post as soon as I saw it, but I am unable to make a comprehensive response to it right now.
I need some time to think it through.
Will reply later.

[RUS]WàrrióR

I think this server would benefit on SSM for all of the maps just to make things more interesting...I see players leave because they are board of playing the same old rotation of Hastings, Hue, Saigon, Repeat! If we can make some of the other maps more interesting then we may be able to keep players on the server for the full map rotation. See attached modified Quang Tri 1968, This one was quite popular ten years ago when it would rotate on [TKO] Tactical Knock Out, we also had SSM on Reclaiming Hue, Fall Of Saigon, etc...adding more vehicles, choppers, custom weapons...Let me know what you think.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WXxfwwXRVb8XhafeiBnJCqCrQI1qITYK/view?usp=sharing

Regards, Shaun.

I believe we had a similar discussion not so long ago:

https://forum.helloclan.eu/threads/9088/

 

[LTShaun]

Agreed, leave well enough alone then. If people want SSM, other servers are currently running them. Our server is famous for being simple and fun, no need to change a good thing.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

I did not suggest to remove any maps or modify (SSM) maps. I simply suggested to periodically shuffle the map list so that the ones that are currently on the bottom of the list get play time as other maps. What is the meaning of 'Allmaps' when some maps never get to be played?

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

Ever since the map orders were changed, several players including @mRoRange, DiscoMagpie, @hard_rice, Petter-PANG! and I have noticed that we do not reach AIR, AIR *LARGE* and even a Ground map have not been played since many months because it is a the bottom of the current map order. This is happening because when the map rotation is going on, a few players will Map Vote Operation Hastings (which is on the top of the map order) and the rotation resets to the beginning repeatedly every time there is a successful Map Vote for Operation Hastings. So other players can never reach the maps on bottom of the current map order. Can you please reintroduce AIR *LARGE* maps at least in the center (middle) of the list so that we can play them again? Thank you! Attached pictures of map list from 2018 and current map list. IMO the previous map list from 2018 was just fine because we got to play ALL MAPS and Map Vote Turned Off.

Thank you for your suggestion.
I have a little different point of view regarding this topic of discussion and I'll try to explain it here.

1.) Unpopular maps are being put in the bottom of the list because they are large, boring and unpopular. You might as well just named all the players in your post who would possibly like to play these maps with only few players.

These maps can be really fun with 30-50 players, but with what we have now (10-20?, maybe 26 max on weekends) it is unbearable.

And here's a fresh example.
The day before you wrote your first topic we actually made it to the bottom, to the map #15 - Fall of Saigon:

All Maps - Game Details

There were 18(!) players online, which is quite rare nowadays for this map, so perhaps it could be even playable.
But after several minutes from the beginning of the map (look at players' score) votemap was passed and everyone moved on to Saigon 68.

Here's another example from 5 days later, hastings map was preferred over fall of saigon again:

All Maps - Game Details

And later Defence of Con Thien was changed to Hastings before this round even started:
http://helloclan.eu/bfv/stats/game.php?id=81634

The point is the majority of players do not like these maps with few players, so even if map vote was turned off, many players would more likely quit rather than playing such maps. And this is how we loose our players.

2.)

I have noticed that we do not reach AIR, AIR *LARGE* and even a Ground map have not been played since many months because it is a the bottom of the current map order. This is happening because when the map rotation is going on, a few players will Map Vote Operation Hastings ... and the rotation resets to the beginning repeatedly every time there is a successful Map Vote for Operation Hastings.

Wrong.
Maybe only few players start the vote, but ALL players participate in this. And a map will change only if MAJORITY of players vote for it.
According to our current settings you need 68% of "YES" votes to change the map via voting system, and this is almost 3/4 of the server population.
There are a lot of map votes going on every map, but very few succeed.

If the majority of players wanted to play on some large maps, map votes would have failed every single time and the map order would go on, right?
But it doesn't usually happen because most players do not want to play it.

3.) In order to not to bulk all the large maps together at the end of the list, it is mixed with some popular maps like so:

In case players decide to change current map to hastings, the map order is going be started from the beginning and players won't have a chance to play these good maps at the bottom of the map list. And this is a problem indeed. That's why I sometimes shuffle the map order and place popular maps from the bottom of the list to the top and vice versa.

4.) In fact, I am constantly thinking about the current map order and how we can improve it.
Speaking of large maps, I noticed that on weekdays there are very few players playing on our server if anyone playing at all.

This is usually less than 10 players max.
In this case they will most likely play the first, I don't know, 3-6 maps?
LZA is map #7 and even though it is already placed in the middle of the map order, on weekdays it would more likely be votemapped away to hastings or abandoned if map vote fails. There are just not enough players even for this map on weekdays!

Actually, I've conducted an experiment and got rid of the bulk of big maps for a week. From Monday to Friday the maplist looked this way:

After running it for a week I analysed statistics:

I know it's not a 100% proof, but at the first glance it looks like that sometimes it can be even better without big maps.
Perhaps, we better need to get rid of some maps during weekdays when there are only few players out there rather than putting large maps in the top of the maplist?

5.) Back to your suggestion:

I don't remember how it was in 2018, but I think there were several map orders that year. How long this one was in place?

I can see Hue+Quang Tri and Reclaiming Hue+Quang Tri are placed together.
Don't you think players are going to get bored with too much ground maps going one after another?
Reclaiming Hue is a very long map, should we put quang tri after it?

Hastings + Dart + Khe Sahn - not too many air maps at the beginning? There are many players who prefer ground maps more.

Fall of Saigon + Cedar Falls + Ia Drang - don't you think it's too many large maps to play simultaneously?

Maybe this map order will pass on weekends, but what about weekdays with only few players on?
Do you think 8 players are going to play Irving+Con Thien+Reclaiming?

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

[RUS]WàrrióR

I think this server would benefit on SSM for all of the maps just to make things more interesting...I see players leave because they are board of playing the same old rotation of Hastings, Hue, Saigon, Repeat! If we can make some of the other maps more interesting then we may be able to keep players on the server for the full map rotation. See attached modified Quang Tri 1968, This one was quite popular ten years ago when it would rotate on [TKO] Tactical Knock Out, we also had SSM on Reclaiming Hue, Fall Of Saigon, etc...adding more vehicles, choppers, custom weapons...Let me know what you think.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WXxfwwXRVb8XhafeiBnJCqCrQI1qITYK/view?usp=sharing

Regards, Shaun.

Agreed, leave well enough alone then. If people want SSM, other servers are currently running them. Our server is famous for being simple and fun, no need to change a good thing.

I really don't care what maps to put in rotation, everything depends on our players.

As I already wrote before, there already was a similar suggestion to put SSM maps. As you can see from that thread, there were no players who would like to see such changes on constant basis. I can replace all our maps with SSM, or make HELLO the Hastings 24/7 server. But the majority of players got used to classic maps and will be against such changes.

I also respect and hear our minority who like to play SSM maps from time to time. That's why I created this thread in the first place.
It may indeed make things more interesting if one or two SSM maps are being placed in the map order once a week/month. This way a few players we have who like SSM maps would have a chance to play it and It also is not going to hurt much the classic maps experience we have for years.

But replacing some or all our maps with SSM versions on permanent basis is not something our players would like to see.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

Thank you for your suggestion.

Thank you for taking the time to respond with detailed information.

The day before you wrote your first topic we actually made it to the bottom, to the map #15 - Fall of Saigon:

All Maps - Game Details

There were 18(!) players online, which is quite rare nowadays for this map, so perhaps it could be even playable.
But after several minutes from the beginning of the map (look at players' score) votemap was passed and everyone moved on to Saigon 68.

You are correct! In fact, I was playing at that time and so were you. I was excited to finally reach Fall of Saigon with so many players. It is the only map with the legendary AC-47 bomber (Douglas Spooky) and BRDM Malyutka Complex (TV guided missile launcher). I jumped on the AC-47 bomber airplane piloted by @Nagi Tanka as it was taking off. As soon as we were airborne, someone triggered a Saigon-1968 Mapvote, Fall of Saigon abruptly ended, and the rotation went back to one of the top-of-the-maplist-maps. I know several players who share my excitement for Fall of Saigon especially @Petter-Pang!. Unfortunately, mapvotes and being on the bottom of the list prevent play of this map as often as before.

Here's another example from 5 days later, hastings map was preferred over fall of saigon again:

All Maps - Game Details

Yes, I have seen this happen many times. Since you seem to be concerned about players leaving the server when maps are "boring and unpopular", I would like you to consider that there are several players like @mRoRange, DiscoMagpie, @hard_rice, @Petter-Pang!, myself, and others also leave, everytime the mapvote brings us back to Operation Hastings OR other top-of-the-maplist-maps.

2.)

Wrong.
Maybe only few players start the vote, but ALL players participate in this. And a map will change only if MAJORITY of players vote for it.
According to our current settings you need 68% of "YES" votes to change the map via voting system, and this is almost 3/4 of the server population.
There are a lot of map votes going on every map, but very few succeed.

If the majority of players wanted to play on some large maps, map votes would have failed every single time and the map order would go on, right?
But it doesn't usually happen because most players do not want to play it.

If I am "Wrong" then please see when was the last time players got to play Operation Cedar Falls. Operation Cedar Falls is another dynamic map with propeller airplanes and armored vehicles found in no other map. It even has it's own underground flags to capture from the NVA, and an entire airbase for Blue team that the Blue team has to defend while capturing NVA flags. Unfortunately, this great BFV map now sits at the bottom of the maplist and has hardly been able to reach gameplay with many players, thanks to repeated mapvotes and admin interventions for Operation Hastings.

Also, lets not forget that Operation Hastings is a "large" map! Try walking from Red main to Blue main and you will see how "large" it is. So all this debate about "large" maps being "boring and unpopular" is kind of baseless because the most popular and voted map is very "large".

Maybe this map order will pass on weekends, but what about weekdays with only few players on?
Do you think 8 players are going to play Irving+Con Thien+Reclaiming?

On the subject of removing maps during weekdays:

This has kind of happened before:
After a few people asked for this in 2018, @IceSkater tried removing some of the maps and this backfired. His intentions, similar to yours were to encourage more traffic. After serious discussions on this topic, there was a forum vote held here and an overwhelming majority voted to RESTORE ALL MAPS. It turns out that every map is favored by some player or the other, therefore removing any map(s) will lead to loss of players on this server. That historic forum vote thread has mysteriously disappeared/deleted ( https://forum.helloclan.eu/threads/8270/page-3 ).

Since we already have Mapvote turned ON, I request you not to remove maps during weekdays because whatever little chance that players like @mRoRange, DiscoMagpie, @hard_rice, Petter-PANG!, myself, and others have in playing rare maps during weekdays is forcibly taken away.

It is being predicted that a second wave of COVID19 is beginning now. We may see a repeat of huge numbers of players coming to the server even on weekdays, as we experienced during the beginning of the first wave in March and April this year. Hopefully during these coming winter months when more and more people are indoors, regardless of COVID19 status, we will see more traffic throughout the weekends and weekdays.

All Maps has been the essence of Hello BFV and this in my opinion has kept Hello the last truly original BFV server still going on, while other servers that only played Operation Hastings such as »HHK« HELOKILLERS, or {RevR} that only played Operation Flaming Dart died off.

Thank you again!

 

[LTShaun]

Well Said x4|Al Gore!