Operation Flaming Dart (3)

[Captain Mack]

Get rid of those re-spawning towers, now the USA has the advantage.
Do what the Sexy Clan did on their Flaming Dart Map
- Add Skyraiders with machine guns. - maybe replace some or all of the F4's.
- Add ZSU's on the island..

When on the off chance the Sexy Clan Flaming Dart map was running at the same time as the the Hello Flaming Dart Map, often the Hello Flaming Dart became a ghost town. -- That says something.

Exactly the same thing happened with the Operation Hastings map, people switched en-masse from Hello to Sexy Hasting map because it had the Skyraiders and other vehicles like the ZSUs..

 

[Bunty]

I agree that respawning towers are a complete mess, but i don't agree that the map should be modded in any way. The U.S. has the corsair, they have C4 and they have wrenches. Two F4s, one spawn boat and three patrol boats aren't too bad as well. It's up to them if they use all that stuff or not.

 

[Cpl.AJ]

It would be nice to have sampans to invade the ARVN island...

 

[Tedde]

I think it's leaning towards giving all towers a little more health, instead of having them respawn.

 

[CommandoBeta]

The U.S does have a slight advantage now, but in this new map there are land wars, the only place the US have the advantage is the air. If NVA players dont like fighting the US jets and choppers ( I have played as a Mig21 several times, and if you know how to dodge the missiles you can still reach ridiculously high scores, ask [tag]=UPEO=Bojangles[/tag] , he did the same thing) they can just fight on the ground. Where the USA aren't overpowered at all, since the NVA get stronger tanks, and the US airforce rarely gives proper air support, since they are busy fighting the NVA air verhicles.

I don't think adding an ZSU to the SVA island is an option. We prefer the least possible amount of modding, and adding a Russian verhicle to a South Vietnamese base is no option. I also don't see the use of it, since they are meant to defend the towers, but right now the towers respawn anyway. But it's not like destroying the towers has no tactical advantage anymore, since it takes I think 3,5 minutes for them to respawn.

2-1-2013 23:20:02 : # [Global] Major Blunder: prity good with respawning towers
2-1-2013 23:20:15 : # [Global] «ßÔß»-Capt. Canada-[CL]: towers respawn now
2-1-2013 23:20:19 : # [Global] SAS-Elite Soldier: Yes, towers respawn
2-1-2013 23:20:26 : # [Global] SAS-Elite Soldier: Fucking NVA overpowered miggies
2-1-2013 23:21:26 : # [Global] Major Blunder: taking towers limits enemy 4or 5 min

As you can see from the average in game chat, the NVA still have an overpowered airfleet, the tactical advantage of taking out towers is not gone, but people do like the fact that they respawn.

 

[Bunty]

The U.S does have a slight advantage now, but in this new map there are land wars, the only place the US have the advantage is the air.

As you can see from the average in game chat, the NVA still have an overpowered airfleet, the tactical advantage of taking out towers is not gone, but people do like the fact that they respawn.

...

 

[Kurk]

What? US/ARVN have worse air than the NVA. MiG21 is better in damage output and maneuverability(turning rate, speed) than the F4 could ever hope for, it just takes skill to take advantage of. MiG17 has 4 bombs and better turning rate than the Corsair, but the corsair has stronger guns. Only real advantage NVA has (imo) is that the Cobra is infinitely better than the Mi8 due to that fact that its fucking small and impossible (for me) to hit, with proper micro management you have 2 attacks(missile and heatseeker), and is more maneuverable than the Mi8.

 

[Bunty]

What? US/ARVN have worse air than the NVA. MiG21 is better in damage output and maneuverability(turning rate, speed) than the F4 could ever hope for, it just takes skill to take advantage of. MiG17 has 4 bombs and better turning rate than the Corsair, but the corsair has stronger guns. Only real advantage NVA has (imo) is that the Cobra is infinitely better than the Mi8 due to that fact that its fucking small and impossible (for me) to hit, with proper micro management you have 2 attacks(missile and heatseeker), and is more maneuverable than the Mi8.

One Cobra goes to MIG17 airfield, the other one protects towers at main. Both F4s only hunt MIG17s. At least one guy repairs towers with wrench. One or two guys sit in patrol boats and use the 50cal. No chance for NVA!

 

[CommandoBeta]

The U.S does have a slight advantage now, but in this new map there are land wars, the only place the US have the advantage is the air.

As you can see from the average in game chat, the NVA still have an overpowered airfleet, the tactical advantage of taking out towers is not gone, but people do like the fact that they respawn.

...

Yes? The NVA does have an overpowered airfleet - doesn't mean it is an advantage. Because people have no idea how to use them. I have often seen people calling the F4 Phatom overpowered. While in fact any skilled mig pilot is invincible for the F4 rockets. Also, the NVA airfleet isn't used to support the groundforces, the pilots still tend to go for the towers, bringing them in range of the M.U.T.Ts and the .50 cal. Furthermore, the NVA can't use the full potential of their airfleet because the U.S pilots fly straight to the NVA respawn bases and go for the infantry instead of the towers, while the NVA air verhicles try to go for the towers of the enemy team and get taken down.

And that's why despite their overpowered airfleet, the NVA do not have the advantage in the air.

I think Kurk also misunderstood me, but he does confirm the point that I am trying to make.

Like I said.

I have played as a Mig21 several times, and if you know how to dodge the missiles you can still reach ridiculously high scores, ask @=UPEO=Bojangles , he did the same thing

 

[Max]

The U.S does have a slight advantage now, but in this new map there are land wars, the only place the US have the advantage is the air.

As you can see from the average in game chat, the NVA still have an overpowered airfleet, the tactical advantage of taking out towers is not gone, but people do like the fact that they respawn.

...

Yes? The NVA does have an overpowered airfleet - doesn't mean it is an advantage. Because people have no idea how to use them. I have often seen people calling the F4 Phatom overpowered. While in fact any skilled mig pilot is invincible for the F4 rockets. Also, the NVA airfleet isn't used to support the groundforces, the pilots still tend to go for the towers, bringing them in range of the M.U.T.Ts and the .50 cal. Furthermore, the NVA can't use the full potential of their airfleet because the U.S pilots fly straight to the NVA respawn bases and go for the infantry instead of the towers, while the NVA air verhicles try to go for the towers of the enemy team and get taken down.

And that's why despite their overpowered airfleet, the NVA do not have the advantage in the air.

I think Kurk also misunderstood me, but he does confirm the point that I am trying to make.

Like I said.

I have played as a Mig21 several times, and if you know how to dodge the missiles you can still reach ridiculously high scores, ask @=UPEO=Bojangles , he did the same thing

Actually, the NVA airfleet does have the advantage in the air. I have played Flaming so many times with and against ashogunnamedmarcus. He always flys the mig-21, and so do I when I'm Nva. Destroying usa phantoms is no problem, and they usually get killed after the 1st 2 minutes of the game, followed by baseraping at the SVA airbase, allowing no phantoms to get in the air :] The mig-17 pilots usually derp around alot, and sometimes destroy the towers. The Cobra's are the only usefull tools that the usa has when a skilled mig-21 pilot is dominating the air.

When I play against marcus or any other skilled mig-21 pilot, I usually take a phantom (if our base doesnt get raped 24/7) and fly to the Nva mig-21 base to steal a mig. Only then the game (with the current players) is fully balanced.

If you ask me, nothing has to be changed. Respawnable towers still work great, and everyone is having fun at flaming-dart. (Thats why it was changed in the first place) Yes, the usa airbase does get raped alot, but with the right people at the right spot, the usa doesnt really have anything to worry about.

 

[Bunty]

Air power doesn't only consist of F4, MIG17 and MIG21! The Cobras are the strongest air power on the whole map! When i have a good gunner on my side I take down MIG17s and MIG21s in just a few seconds! I mean U.S. has 3 M.U.T.T.s, they have 4 50cals. (3 of them are moveable and very powerful), they have 2 F4s, they have 1 Corsair, they have 2 Cobras, they have 1 Chinook, they have machine guns and they have wrenches. Hell, what else could you need to take those MIG17s down and to protect your towers?

Let's get rid of those respawning towers! The map was much better without them.

 

[Max]

Hell, what else could you need to take those MIG17s down and to protect your towers?

People that actually use them that way.

 

[Bunty]

Hell, what else could you need to take those MIG17s down and to protect your towers?

People that actually use them that way.

Do we also build a wall at the end of the bridge on reclaiming hue just to prevent that people get blown up by all those mines? Will we place signs with arrows to show them the way around the city wall?

Destroyed U.S. towers always meant lots of action at the flags. That's completely gone now. It only feels like one of those messed up modded servers with dozens of helis and planes. The sad thing is that Flaming Dart was one of the good maps other than all those shitty jungle and city maps.

 

[Max]

Hell, what else could you need to take those MIG17s down and to protect your towers?

People that actually use them that way.

Do we also build a wall at the end of the bridge on reclaiming hue just to prevent that people get blown up by all those mines? Will we place signs with arrows to show them the way around the city wall?

Destroyed U.S. towers always meant lots of action at the flags. That's completely gone now. It only feels like one of those messed up modded servers with dozens of helis and planes. The sad thing is that Flaming Dart was one of the good maps other than all those shitty jungle and city maps.

I don't care that much if there are respawnable towers or not. I enjoyed flaming dart the old way and still do with respawnable towers. But yes, with the respawnable towers, alot of action around the flags has been taken away. Alot, but not everything. If that is what worries you, then think about it this way: What do you prefer? Having no airsupport (because the nva raped your shit apart at the airbase) and get raped by Mi-8s at the flag? Or actually have airsupport, allowing you to take over flags alot easier on the mainland. (because alot of those mi-8s/mig-17s get shot down by the phantoms/cobra's)
My choise is easily made.

 

[Bunty]

I don't care that much if there are respawnable towers or not. I enjoyed flaming dart the old way and still do with respawnable towers. But yes, with the respawnable towers, alot of action around the flags has been taken away. Alot, but not everything. If that is what worries you, then think about it this way: What do you prefer? Having no airsupport (because the nva raped your shit apart at the airbase) and get raped by Mi-8s at the flag? Or actually have airsupport, allowing you to take over flags alot easier on the mainland. (because alot of those mi-8s/mig-17s get shot down by the phantoms/cobra's)
My choise is easily made.

I'd rather prefer to get the shit raped out of me by MI-8 if my team stands side by side at the flags other than my team only camping at towers waiting for their turn to fly. Most of the time those plane pilots don't even care about the Mi-8s. They just try to kill the Migs. Also the NVA is only camping at towers which prevents any good fights.

All you're trying to do is to make the game fair even though it's fair enough. You just try to make it even more fair without noticing that you're destroying all the oldschool fun.