Hit detection, especially with helicopters

[Karl Marx]

This has been an issue, at least for me, for a while. Often when you use an antitank weapon, like the LAW or RPG, the hits fail to register as anything. It was particularly bad tonight when I scored 4 confirmed hits (i.e. I saw the warhead explode) with only 1 registering, albeit rather weakly. Has anyone else had issues like this, and is there a way to fix it? Helicopters are almost overpowered, especially against the US, who lacks a portable SAM and is forced to use the LAW.

 

[Soldier]

I can insure you that its not a hack.
BFV bugs often, thats the reason, sometimes people hit right the enemy helicopter, but he doesnt get damage, we just have to live it, lol, and there is no fix for it.

 

[Yok_Foo]

Yeah the hit detection might be off on the choppers, but there's a weak point on the underslope of the pilot's side, if you hit it from downunder it kills the man eventually exploding the chopper.
There are a few pilots who exploit that spot, but if you hit the bottom the damage will be small.

It's better to just keep shooting and run as fast as you can!

 

[CommandoBeta]

Yes, some helicopter rockets explode but do not damange. When in Multiplayer, dont aim for the same spots on a heli than in SP. Aim for the edges of the chopper, rockets to the middle of the chopper don't usually hit. I think that only when you have a ping like ~10, those hits are registered too. Most people I know have the same problem.

 

[Max]

It depends on how fast those vehicles move. If a helicopter was to fly very slowly, law rockets can even hit and be registered on the tail boom. But normally if you want to take down a huey or plane with rpg or Law, you will need to hit the vehicle right in the centre.

 

[Tedde]

The same rule applies with all types of missiles, the ones on helicopters too -you got to hit them in a particular way
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsJy_by1E3E[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SauXrY90d9g[/youtube]

 

[Karl Marx]

Alright, thanks for your input. Just wanted to make sure this wasn't a server glitch/hack.

So much for realism.

 

[CommandoBeta]

Alright, thanks for your input. Just wanted to make sure this wasn't a server glitch/hack.

So much for realism.

An helicopter airlifting a jeep full of headbanging soldiers, then dropping the jeep as a bomb and making 3 loopings didn't make you realize this game isn't that realistic?

 

[Kurk]

It's a limitation of the game engine. DICE is notorious for being horrible at writing netcode, which is the code that handles server data that being sent to the client/from the client(ie: your missle(client data) hitting another players(server data(ish))) helicopter. Basically, the projectile is not where it seems because the game can't process the information quickly and efficiently, thus causing an extra layer of "lag" as if you had 200 ping. Most times the bad netcode is not really noticeable unless you aren't using a Hitscan weapon(Instant to near Instant hit impact; A rocket is non-hitscan weapon). If you look at the netcode in all of DICE's games, it gets better with every game, BF1942 being the worst, BF3 being the best. And yet BF3's netcode is horrendous. Unreal Engine > Refractor 2/Frostbyte 2, one things Cod has going for it.

 

[toxic2]

i was gona just say what kurk said :/

 

[Yok_Foo]

It's a limitation of the game engine. DICE is notorious for being horrible at writing netcode, which is the code that handles server data that being sent to the client/from the client(ie: your missle(client data) hitting another players(server data(ish))) helicopter. Basically, the projectile is not where it seems because the game can't process the information quickly and efficiently, thus causing an extra layer of "lag" as if you had 200 ping. Most times the bad netcode is not really noticeable unless you aren't using a Hitscan weapon(Instant to near Instant hit impact; A rocket is non-hitscan weapon). If you look at the netcode in all of DICE's games, it gets better with every game, BF1942 being the worst, BF3 being the best. And yet BF3's netcode is horrendous. Unreal Engine > Refractor 2/Frostbyte 2, one things Cod has going for it.

I liked your post, but i also have to add that the Refractor engine was designed to make BF1942 and extended for BfV which means the addition of helicopters, and the problem with that is the concept of "glass" because there isn't any.

Frostbyte 2 is extremely complicated with flares/tv-missiles etc..
Look on jeeps for example, everything is made realistically and there's ways to counter them:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe9NycT8oKc[/youtube]

 

[JohnWayne]

How does you look at the netcode?

 

[Kurk]

I liked your post, but i also have to add that the Refractor engine was designed to make BF1942 and extended for BfV which means the addition of helicopters, and the problem with that is the concept of "glass" because there isn't any.

Frostbyte 2 is extremely complicated with flares/tv-missiles etc..
Look on jeeps for example, everything is made realistically and there's ways to counter them:

Actually, Frostbyte is very simple in how it works with destruction. There are a couple of 1942 mods out that have destruction and the basic jist of how it works is that instead of making buildings a static object you make building a spawning object like a jeep. Then you at hit points to it and animate death scenes like you would a soldier. The only "complex" thing about it is that its a tedious and lengthy process to code it for each and every sector. I would think the only complex thing in Frostbyte is the lighting system, but that could easily be figured out if they'd give us modding tools. Its about the only AAA engine out there that doesn't have an SDK of some sort and its not more complex than the ID Tech 5 engine, which in my opinion looks a hella lot better than this griddy monotone POS called the Frostbyte. Oh how beautiful thou war in BC2 when there was actually colour, not blue filter.

How does you look at the netcode?

Its a tad complicated. There's a couple of files you can look through (dunno the names) that many modders at bfmods tried to mod, but it seems DICE hardcoded it into the exe. You can also hack the exe to look at the code, or atleast I think. I've only really seen some of the code that people at the old SSM site posted.

 

[Karl Marx]

After experimenting a little bit in singleplayer, I found this CAN happen with nearly every vehicle, usually from glancing blows (i.e. hits the side of a helicopter, tank, from an nearly parallel angle), which actually IS semi-realistic, as the shaped-charge warhead would be firing in the wrong direction. Apparently, that doesn't affect noobs firing RPGs and M79s at their feet.

On the subject of netcode, too bad it's hardcoded. What SDKs are there for BFV, anyway?

 

[Yok_Foo]

Actually, Frostbyte is very simple in how it works with destruction. There are a couple of 1942 mods out that have destruction and the basic jist of how it works is that instead of making buildings a static object you make building a spawning object like a jeep. Then you at hit points to it and animate death scenes like you would a soldier. The only "complex" thing about it is that its a tedious and lengthy process to code it for each and every sector. I would think the only complex thing in Frostbyte is the lighting system, but that could easily be figured out if they'd give us modding tools.

Wait, wait, wait, to make destruction on jeeps, tanks, airplanes, helis, buildings, etc.. to comply with game engine 3D architecture... is easy?

So what you're saying is... anyone could do it if they wanted to, is that what you mean?

You're talking about extensions to an already existing engine, now that should be easy if they deliver it to you on a plate to work with, but they built it from ground up.
From what i've gathered no other has even made a versatile vehicle/aircraft/bombing/infantry multiplayer game successful like BF1942 yet... i mean you could make it for todays consoles but no other has done it... but it's too easy i guess.

Nevermind that BF3 has a cutting edge game engine of today's standards, if not the most cutting edge.

 

[Kurk]

Destruction is pretty easy to code, yeah. Its the same as creating a vehicle, spawning it in a 3D world, and then killing it triggering the death animation. The only really difficult part is debugging and finding a team/having the time to create it.

 

[Old Hippo]

I really liked BC2 destruction. I was rather bummed when BF3 seemed to have less dynamic landscapes.

And in BFV, you have to shoot through the helis. Once you get used to compensating, it becomes quite normal using a LAW / RPG v.s. air. In the end, it can be far better than a SA7 if you develop good aim.

 

[Tedde]

And in BFV, you have to shoot through the helis. Once you get used to compensating, it becomes quite normal using a LAW / RPG v.s. air. In the end, it can be far better than a SA7 if you develop good aim.

Yeah, remember {G*E*R} ? They were the masters of clanwars a couple of years ago. We met them once, and it was always two rounds of Hastings. One of the main rules were that you couldn't use the Sa-7, so they placed out members with RPG's that literally just shot down our helicopters and airplanes if we somehow got past their MI8's.

 

[Karl Marx]

I haven't quite developed that skill yet, but it's coming. I hit helicopters with probably between a third and a forth of my shots, and probably more than 3 quarters cause damage. How do you shoot down a airplane with an RPG? Helicopters are hard enough.

Wait a minute, wouldn't BC2 destruction in BFV require hundreds, if not thousands of death animations/sectors per building, or would the whole building blow up at once?

 

[Tedde]

I haven't quite developed that skill yet, but it's coming. I hit helicopters with probably between a third and a forth of my shots, and probably more than 3 quarters cause damage. How do you shoot down a airplane with an RPG? Helicopters are hard enough.

Well, if you have to take on a plane with an RPG or LAW, it's usually bombing you - so he's an easy target, flying low, with the bottom facing the ground.

For skilled BFV Players, I don't think that most of them think about what it is that they really do.
But they're familiar with the speed of the rocket, so they practically observe the plane, and account for the speed with which it's moving, and get an estimate of where it will be when the rocket hits.