Can we remove the mods on Operation Irving and Ia Drang Valley and change the order of the maps?

[Paul Walker]

I'd first like to elaborate on the mods implemented on the two aforementioned maps:
Both maps functioned properly on their own and the added mods simply did not improve the gaming experience. Operation Irving has always been a fan favourite for a reason: nice balance of USA attack and NVA defense power plus plenty of possibilities for fun infantry gameplay. WIth the mods, however, NVA is usually overpowered due to the KA-25, two MIGs, several ZSUs, SA7s and a MI-8 plus a MI spawn heli, while the USA has basically no changes added to its army. The map also became too helicopter and jet-heavy as infantry gameplay is much more difficult due to the sheer amount of vehicles that can attack from the air.

Regarding Landing Zone Albany, the map has also become almost unenjoyable as infanry due to the helicopters paired with the large open space. The clothes of the players do not provide enough camouflage to blend into the surrounding area, and thus they become an easy target for anything airborne. It provides a really poor gaming experience, no matter what side one decides to play on.

Secondly, I'd like to ask the team to change the order of the maps. Due to the short timeframe when people from all over the world can come together and paly during the weekend, we always end up playing the same maps. It has gotten to the point where one can guess with a high level of accuracy what map is currently being played on, just by looking at the clock. This leaves at least half the available maps almost completely unplayed. Operation Cedar Falls is something we have not played on in a long time, for example.
If we could mix it up, or create a shuffle system where the automod randomly decides what map to play next, that would be much better.

Hope you can consider the above and looking forward to more BFV wars!

 

[=ECC= Venom]

After you said it keeping the vehicles true to the original team is the better choice. While MiG 17 does beat an F4 (long as the 17 pilot has good an awareness ). Having the f4 napalm for USA is a crucial factor especially in capturing the middle flag where troops can hide in huts and bunkers. F4 also provides the ability to put a quick end to the spawn chopper , something that would probably be essential on a more crowded server situation where troops can continuously pour out. Removal of hormone would definitely help a ton with keeping the f4 useful as the hormone hard counters it. (Radar , machine guns. And seat switch rocket ability when the f4 takes a front angle to shoot it down ). I think people should honestly work on being creative in terms of their play style and adjusting and welcoming changes, even if they don’t see it in a good light at first. Look at it objectively from a balance standpoint. And all of it adds to a more fair and imo better experience for all players (long as they are open to something slightly different than what they are used to). Stock irving imo is fine with a super crowded high population server, but when those numbers are single digits to teens , I don’t see how the light quality of life mods aren’t beneficial. I enjoy talking about balancing and improving things , and shark seems very open to suggestions from everyone.

 

[TKO_Flight447]

Ok guys do whatever you want to do. @x4|Al Gore , i tried buddy, good luck.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

AlGore, why you would say what you said in a public thread without first discussing amongst the admins is not cool. Comparing her to RusWarrior is definitely a stretch. He was the most strict leader we ever had and did not allow any change or suggestions. Blue shark has been contributing to this community in a positive manner which is why Heilig and I chose to invite her to the leadership group.

Well said, Shaun.

While Blue is nowhere near as dismissive as RusWarrior, I was comparing the reluctance to seriously consider the suggestions made by multiple players in this thread who have asked the admins to restore the original maps. Personally, I have only been advocating for reverting Irving. Other players have also suggested that Saigon-1968 never needed modifications either. I agree with that, although I haven't been as concerned about Saigon because I haven't noticed players leaving when it starts.

Many of us experienced the same pattern with RusWarrior. During the early COVID period, every suggestion I made was eventually implemented after @IceSkater returned. Those changes included reshuffling the map rotation, disabling friendly fire, adding an automatic kick for offensive language so younger players could join, disabling map voting to prevent vote spam, and several other improvements. None of those decisions were made arbitrarily—they were implemented by IceSkater and the other leaders after reviewing player data, turnout, and community feedback on the forum.

In my view, the question isn't whether we'll return to the original maps—it's when.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

I played the modified Irving again today with and 13 other players. It was good fun with so many players. Keep up the good work @Blue shark We are on the same team and we want the same results.

 

[Blue shark]

I've removed the Hormone and Loach from Saigon and added a Mi8 cargo heli (with its spawn points removed) to the red team in place of the Hormone. This makes the map more ground friendly with no sides having attack helicopters

It's become obvious that the Huey gunship didn't suit the map and neither did the Hormone, maybe if some more anti air weapons had been added this could have been made work but that would have been too invasive and too big of a change for this map so it was consciously avoided

Like the Slick, the Mi8 cargo heli has the ability to drop smoke grenades by left clicking. If this final attempt at modded Saigon doesn't please the majority or won't be received well, we can go back to the original map, but let's give this one more try

 

[TKO_Flight447]

Any chance we can get a slight map rotation change please? Its very stale right now.

The first four maps *ARE PERFECT*
Hastings gets the server going, then Hue for infantry, Dart and then Saigon 68 comes on, by which time there are usually a lot of people playing and its a really fun time. The problem is the next couple of maps. The Quang Tri's are extremely long, and if I'm not mistaken, are almost back to back in the rotation. I haven't seen some maps like Fall of Saigon or the jungle maps in like over a year. They never get played. Can we please move some of those maps up in the rotation after Saigon 68?

 

[Blue shark]

We could consider adding time limits on both Quang Tri maps and relegate Khe Sahn to later in the rotation and have it be replaced by Game Warden as a trial and see how that works out. The jungle maps do have the problem of not being ideal at retaining players and routinely causing some regulars to leave whenever they come on, but with some time limits it would at least be more of a realistic prospect that one may actually make it all the way through the rotation and eventually end up playing them during a busy night.

 

[TKO_Flight447]

We could consider adding time limits on both Quang Tri maps and relegate Khe Sahn to later in the rotation and have it be replaced by Game Warden as a trial and see how that works out. The jungle maps do have the problem of not being ideal at retaining players and routinely causing some regulars to leave whenever they come on, but with some time limits it would at least be more of a realistic prospect that one may actually make it all the way through the rotation and eventually end up playing them during a busy night.

Thanks for reply. I understand the problem jungle maps can cause, but on the same thought, maps like both Quang Tri's make players leave also, like myself. They're too long, too boring and the way they're currently placed in the rotation, its usually the final test to if people will stay or not for one more game. If I'm thinking of staying for one more game, and Quang Tri is up, I almost always leave. Just don't have the time or energy to play it.

At least, can we make the Quang Tri's not back-to-back in the rotation? As they are now, I believe there is only one map that separates them. And instead of Game Warden taking the spot, can we put a map that rarely gets played, like Albany? I know the argument is said alot that this is an Allmaps server...but in reality, its more like 5-6 maps that get played normally.

 

[Blue shark]

I've revised the map rotation to the following:

Operation Hastings
Hue
Operation Flaming Dart
Saigon 1968
Operation Game Warden
Reclaiming Hue
Operation Irving
Quang Tri 1968
Siege of Khe Sahn
Landing Zone Albany
Lang Vei
Quang Tri 1972
Ia Drang Valley
Ho Chi Minh Trail
Defense of Con Thien
Operation Cedar Falls
Cambodian Incursion
Fall of Saigon

In addition to the pre-existing Reclaiming Hue and Operation Flaming Dart and 50 minute limits, there are now also time limits on the following maps:

Cambodian Incursion - 30 minutes
Defense of Con Thien - 50 minutes
Fall of Saigon - 30 minutes
Ho Chi Minh Trail - 30 minutes
Ia Drang Valley - 30 minutes
Landing Zone Albany - 50 minutes
Quang Tri 1968 - 50 minutes
Quang Tri 1972 - 50 minutes

 

[TKO_Flight447]

Very good new rotation, thank you for doing it for us. Very happy about being able to play Albany once again with a reasonable amount of players. How much of a bribe will you need to move Fall of Saigon up between Quang Tri 68 and Khe Sanh

 

[Blue shark]

The two Quang Tri maps being so close to each other was really an issue in need of solving, hopefully the new rotation works well enough for most players. And beyond that, a small adjustment was made in having Khe Sahn follow Reclaiming Hue rather than Irving, since that tends to be the more popular of the two so it should come first in the rotation. Everything else remains the same.