kick because inaktiv ?!

[MglCan]

Hello,

in the game yesterday (02.07.22) there was once again a problem with the kick of a user for inactivity.
My wife (cokra) and I (MglCan) were together in the game.
Very briefly I saw a question from the admin "cokra, do you play". Knowing that my wife (just like me) is completely focused on the game on sniper mission and not noticing the messages, I replied "yes, cokra is playing". Then cokra drops a message with "main" - because of a main attack .... almost immediately after that it was kicked from the server.

Unfortunately it is not the first time that this happens, so here is my question:
What are the cornerstones / thresholds at which an admin judges if a user is inactive and how can the communication between admin and user be improved so that ingame messages are not the only means of communication?

Is it the job of the admin to evaluate if the strategic and tactical behavior of a user, which includes especially the "not moving", indicates inactivity?

Basically it is the task of an admin to proceed with a "light hand", I know what I am talking about here. Professionally, I am in charge of an IT system for a federal authority, which is used daily in parallel by about 16,000 users.

The admin cannot and must not feel like a "godlike super-user", he is there for the user, not against him.

Of course, the protection of the entrusted system has priority and in case of attacks or compromising behavior, consistent and tough action is necessary - but we are talking about a game which is mainly for entertainment. The server yesterday was not overcrowded with about 16-24 users, In my opinion, monitoring inactive users has a secondary character here.

with kind regards
Mirko aka MglCan

 

[IceSkater]

Hello Mgl,

This is coming down to an unfortunate series of events which will be cleared up.

Our rules state this on being AFK:

AFK​

If you need to step away from your PC for a few moments, we recommend that you got to spectator mode (bear in mind you will loose your score) until you return. If you are AFK and not in spectator mode, the following will happen;

1. The player will be asked if they are playing. This will be through yellow admin chat or in-game, both count as sufficient warning. Should they respond, nothing further will happen.
   
   
2. Should the player not respond after being given a sufficient amount of time, or should they still fall under any of the below conditions, the player will be kicked.

Spoiler: Conditions for being AFK:
At least one of the following conditions need to be met for us to decide a player is AFK.

1. a) The player must have a score of 0 0 0, signifying they've made no game-play actions.

1. b) The player must have no kit beside their name, signifying they haven't spawned.

1. c) The player must have a greyed out name for at least a few minutes, signifying they've not joined.

If you had answered on behalf of Cokra, this should have been fine and acceptable. However, I should mention that in some cases one may forget that you & Cokra are in the same household and thus it could be overlooked.

However, I would implore that should a player actually be playing but still fall under these circumstances & not respond to an admin directly, they may be kicked for being AFK yet. As insulting as it may be, it is not a ban and one can simply re-connect as soon as they're no longer occupied - if they were / are legitimately AFK.

If it has been done with malicious intent though, then reporting it to myself / the other leaders is preferred: https://forum.helloclan.eu/helpdesk (report staff).

To draw in this topic made by @Blueheeler https://forum.helloclan.eu/threads/10017/

I unfortunately can't change how long the admin messages appear, worse yet is that if the players name is long(ish) it makes the admin chat basically flash before a player without being able to read it.

AFK players can contribute to perhaps boosting the server counts but they make things a bit unfair as sometimes (mostly) they unbalance the teams. Worse yet is that there are those out there who dislike AFK players with a passion and we hear all about it if we do not kick AFK players.

Honest mistakes do happen. But everything must be taken into account. @Blueheeler please checkout this thread and @MglCan 's post. MglCan has stated a major point and that is we are here for the players. All of them. The ones we like and dislike alike.

We deal with whatever happens in a clear and open minded fashion.

 

[Blueheeler]

Hello,

in the game yesterday (02.07.22) there was once again a problem with the kick of a user for inactivity.
My wife (cokra) and I (MglCan) were together in the game.
Very briefly I saw a question from the admin "cokra, do you play". Knowing that my wife (just like me) is completely focused on the game on sniper mission and not noticing the messages, I replied "yes, cokra is playing". Then cokra drops a message with "main" - because of a main attack .... almost immediately after that it was kicked from the server.

Unfortunately it is not the first time that this happens, so here is my question:
What are the cornerstones / thresholds at which an admin judges if a user is inactive and how can the communication between admin and user be improved so that ingame messages are not the only means of communication?

Is it the job of the admin to evaluate if the strategic and tactical behavior of a user, which includes especially the "not moving", indicates inactivity?

Basically it is the task of an admin to proceed with a "light hand", I know what I am talking about here. Professionally, I am in charge of an IT system for a federal authority, which is used daily in parallel by about 16,000 users.

The admin cannot and must not feel like a "godlike super-user", he is there for the user, not against him.

Of course, the protection of the entrusted system has priority and in case of attacks or compromising behavior, consistent and tough action is necessary - but we are talking about a game which is mainly for entertainment. The server yesterday was not overcrowded with about 16-24 users, In my opinion, monitoring inactive users has a secondary character here.

with kind regards
Mirko aka MglCan

Im sorry you were kicked when you were actually playing Cokra. If you had answered then it wouldn't have happened, This the log of me asking you 4 times with no reply. Regarding inactivity. Your score was 000, you were not moving, when I asked you 4 times if you were playing there was no response. If an admin talks to you about "Are you playing"and you don't reply then you have to accept being kicked I followed the rules about kicking AFKers.
As to your comment: The admin cannot and must not feel like a "godlike super-user", he is there for the user, not against him. Can you tell me on the Hello BFV site where that is written as you have accused me of acting in a god like manner going against the rules. As per not seeing the message 4 times that doesn't wash with me as I also snipe a lot and can still read all the messages and even chat. I was sniping and couldn't read the messages is not a valid excuse in my book.
PS no where is there an answer from you saying your wife was playing b4 she was kicked and remember the response time from using the kick player function takes about 10 seconds to take action so If an admin uses that action and then after being asked 4 times if they are afk An admin get a reply from another player it can't be stopped and that player will be kicked.

3/07/2022 07:55:18 : Client: Said '[BVSM] cokra are you playing?'.
3/07/2022 07:55:19 : Server: Admin message sent.
3/07/2022 07:55:22 : Client: Kick player Private Rice Eater.
3/07/2022 07:55:23 : Server: Player Private Rice Eater kicked.
3/07/2022 07:55:28 : # [RED] Jum_P: not main
3/07/2022 07:55:34 : Client: Said '[BVSM] cokra are you playing?'.
3/07/2022 07:55:35 : Server: Admin message sent.
3/07/2022 07:55:52 : # [RED] x4|Al Gore: Spawn helo dont waste time on Blue main, get flags
3/07/2022 07:55:58 : # [Global] x4|Al Gore: Scofield
3/07/2022 07:56:04 : # [Global] x4|Al Gore: dont
3/07/2022 07:56:04 : Client: Said '[BVSM] cokra are you playing?'.
3/07/2022 07:56:05 : Server: Admin message sent.
3/07/2022 07:56:15 : # [Global] DiscoMagpie: it's raping tim
3/07/2022 07:56:21 : # [BLUE] «ßÔß»-RageVsMachine: main
3/07/2022 07:56:23 : # [BLUE] DiscoMagpie: us main
3/07/2022 07:56:34 : Client: Said '[BVSM] cokra are you playing?'.
3/07/2022 07:56:35 : Server: Admin message sent.
3/07/2022 07:56:45 : Player cokra [unknown] kicked by Blueheeler for Kick for AFK/Not playing.
3/07/2022 07:56:45 : Client: Said '[BVSM] cokra kicked for Kick for AFK/Not playing'.

 

[Bee]

Hello,

in the game yesterday (02.07.22) there was once again a problem with the kick of a user for inactivity.
My wife (cokra) and I (MglCan) were together in the game.
Very briefly I saw a question from the admin "cokra, do you play". Knowing that my wife (just like me) is completely focused on the game on sniper mission and not noticing the messages, I replied "yes, cokra is playing". Then cokra drops a message with "main" - because of a main attack .... almost immediately after that it was kicked from the server.

Unfortunately it is not the first time that this happens, so here is my question:
What are the cornerstones / thresholds at which an admin judges if a user is inactive and how can the communication between admin and user be improved so that ingame messages are not the only means of communication?

Is it the job of the admin to evaluate if the strategic and tactical behavior of a user, which includes especially the "not moving", indicates inactivity?

Basically it is the task of an admin to proceed with a "light hand", I know what I am talking about here. Professionally, I am in charge of an IT system for a federal authority, which is used daily in parallel by about 16,000 users.

The admin cannot and must not feel like a "godlike super-user", he is there for the user, not against him.

Of course, the protection of the entrusted system has priority and in case of attacks or compromising behavior, consistent and tough action is necessary - but we are talking about a game which is mainly for entertainment. The server yesterday was not overcrowded with about 16-24 users, In my opinion, monitoring inactive users has a secondary character here.

with kind regards
Mirko aka MglCan

Unfortunately we currently have an admin who quite franky enjoys kicking and banning more than the actual gameplay itself. Iv seen myself twice in the last 2 weeks there being 8 people on the server- have the need to start a disruption and kick players "because of the rules" when everyone was playing completely fine with eachother and we had a good game going. I just dont see how this is good for the server and it really makes me want to give up on this game seeing the last server operate like that. Also on a side note-not disagreeing with kicking afks bc that disrupts the game with lopsided teams as well

 

[Vmax]

Kicking AFKers isn't productive unless the game is lopsided or the server is full. FFS leave the game alone unless there
is a 'real' problem.

 

[Blueheeler]

Hello,

in the game yesterday (02.07.22) there was once again a problem with the kick of a user for inactivity.
My wife (cokra) and I (MglCan) were together in the game.
Very briefly I saw a question from the admin "cokra, do you play". Knowing that my wife (just like me) is completely focused on the game on sniper mission and not noticing the messages, I replied "yes, cokra is playing". Then cokra drops a message with "main" - because of a main attack .... almost immediately after that it was kicked from the server.

Unfortunately it is not the first time that this happens, so here is my question:
What are the cornerstones / thresholds at which an admin judges if a user is inactive and how can the communication between admin and user be improved so that ingame messages are not the only means of communication?

Is it the job of the admin to evaluate if the strategic and tactical behavior of a user, which includes especially the "not moving", indicates inactivity?

Basically it is the task of an admin to proceed with a "light hand", I know what I am talking about here. Professionally, I am in charge of an IT system for a federal authority, which is used daily in parallel by about 16,000 users.

The admin cannot and must not feel like a "godlike super-user", he is there for the user, not against him.

Of course, the protection of the entrusted system has priority and in case of attacks or compromising behavior, consistent and tough action is necessary - but we are talking about a game which is mainly for entertainment. The server yesterday was not overcrowded with about 16-24 users, In my opinion, monitoring inactive users has a secondary character here.

with kind regards
Mirko aka MglCan
Thank you for your feed back.
Kind regards.
Blueheeler

 

[Blueheeler]

Hello Mgl,

This is coming down to an unfortunate series of events which will be cleared up.

Our rules state this on being AFK:



If you had answered on behalf of Cokra, this should have been fine and acceptable. However, I should mention that in some cases one may forget that you & Cokra are in the same household and thus it could be overlooked.

However, I would implore that should a player actually be playing but still fall under these circumstances & not respond to an admin directly, they may be kicked for being AFK yet. As insulting as it may be, it is not a ban and one can simply re-connect as soon as they're no longer occupied - if they were / are legitimately AFK.

If it has been done with malicious intent though, then reporting it to myself / the other leaders is preferred: https://forum.helloclan.eu/helpdesk (report staff).

To draw in this topic made by @Blueheeler https://forum.helloclan.eu/threads/10017/

I unfortunately can't change how long the admin messages appear, worse yet is that if the players name is long(ish) it makes the admin chat basically flash before a player without being able to read it.

AFK players can contribute to perhaps boosting the server counts but they make things a bit unfair as sometimes (mostly) they unbalance the teams. Worse yet is that there are those out there who dislike AFK players with a passion and we hear all about it if we do not kick AFK players.

Honest mistakes do happen. But everything must be taken into account. @Blueheeler please checkout this thread and @MglCan 's post. MglCan has stated a major point and that is we are here for the players. All of them. The ones we like and dislike alike.

We deal with whatever happens in a clear and open minded fashion.

Hey Ice
I'm not sure why anyone would think I don't like a certain player or multiple players? I believe I'm treating all players fairly and across the board.
I'm open to criticism as no one is perfect. There are only those that think they are perfect. I like all people have flaws. I respond to in game requests via votes to change maps if players are getting bored.
Or if a player is raping or requests to kick AFK players are placed by other players. I'm teased and sometime I tease in return ,all in good fun. If a player does a FF and kills me, if it was by accident No problems, if they stand there shooting me or blow up a vehicle as I'm getting in it. Then that is disruptive game play.
I don't have anything against players that go out of their way to bait admins not only myself, all good that's their personality as it used to be mine way back.Or they are experiencing problems in real life and come on the game or forum to in affect troll people.Again that's OK with me that's their problem not mine.
After all it is only a old game we choose to play, some play as a single entity others play as a team depending on the map,or some camp all game every game, that's what is still fun about this game, after all these years it can still be unpredictable.
As I have said a few times before, You are free to revoke my admin rights at any time for any reason if you see the need.
I give you my word, that unlike a few past admins that have a problem after losing their admin rights. I'm cool with not being an admin but am happy to keep helping you and the admin team.
I took the role on to try to make the game better and adjust the thinking of the trolls and abusive players, by following the rules. Maybe players should think along the lines of "If you don't break rules then there is no need for any admins"! Not hard is it? Or for some it is

 

[Blueheeler]

Kicking AFKers isn't productive unless the game is lopsided or the server is full. FFS leave the game alone unless there
is a 'real' problem.

When did you last play?

 

[Blueheeler]

Unfortunately we currently have an admin who quite franky enjoys kicking and banning more than the actual gameplay itself. Iv seen myself twice in the last 2 weeks there being 8 people on the server- have the need to start a disruption and kick players "because of the rules" when everyone was playing completely fine with eachother and we had a good game going. I just dont see how this is good for the server and it really makes me want to give up on this game seeing the last server operate like that. Also on a side note-not disagreeing with kicking afks bc that disrupts the game with lopsided teams as well

Bee try reading your comment again you contradict yourself