Your ideas: Customizing game experience

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

Post here your suggestions regarding this topic: https://forum.helloclan.eu/threads/8972/ !

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

You are correct! In fact, I was playing at that time and so were you. I was excited to finally reach Fall of Saigon with so many players. It is the only map with the legendary AC-47 bomber (Douglas Spooky) and BRDM Malyutka Complex (TV guided missile launcher). I jumped on the AC-47 bomber airplane piloted by @Nagi Tanka as it was taking off. As soon as we were airborne, someone triggered a Saigon-1968 Mapvote, Fall of Saigon abruptly ended, and the rotation went back to one of the top-of-the-maplist-maps. I know several players who share my excitement for Fall of Saigon especially Peter-PANG!. Unfortunately, mapvotes and being on the bottom of the list prevent play of this map as often as before.

Yes, I have seen this happen many times. Since you seem to be concerned about players leaving the server when maps are "boring and unpopular", I would like you to consider that there are several players like @mRoRange, DiscoMagpie, @hard_rice, Petter-PANG!, myself, and others also leave, everytime the mapvote brings us back to Operation Hastings OR other top-of-the-maplist-maps.

I'm not sure why you keep saying that these players are supporting your idea. How can you possibly know their point of view on that topic? Analyzing in-game chat only?

All Maps - Chat Log Details

In fact, it appears that Disco likes it the way it is. Moreover he would like to see some maps removed or put in the bottom of the map list.
Did you forget to update your post and mention that?

The rest 3 players all have forum accounts, but I can't see neither their replies here nor even their likes under your suggestion post, so I can conclude that they are not supporting this or like it the way it is.
I believe speaking on behalf of other players would be incorrect and so far I can see only your vote here.

Speaking of

I would like you to consider that there are several players like @mRoRange, DiscoMagpie, @hard_rice, Petter-PANG!, myself, and others also leave, everytime the mapvote brings us back to Operation Hastings OR other top-of-the-maplist-maps.

Yesterday we had a similar situation when we got voted away from Defence of Con Thien to Hastings.

All Maps - Game Details

All Maps - Game Details

I have analyzed the number of players in the end of the Con Thien and when hastings turned on. I took several screenshots of the scoreboard in the beginning of the round and somewhere in the middle of the round when players don't have zero scores.

Spoiler: Players list

As you can see here, looks like almost everyone stayed for the hastings after Con Thien, except you. Players number remains the same, so your statement about bunch of players leave everytime the mapvote brings back to top of the maplist maps is kinda baseless.

Also, lets not forget that Operation Hastings is a "large" map! Try walking from Red main to Blue main and you will see how "large" it is. So all this debate about "large" maps being "boring and unpopular" is kind of baseless because the most popular and voted map is very "large".

But we are not talking about only the area of the land in square miles, right? You should also consider such factors as how fast you can get from one flag to another, how far main flags are located in comparison with each other and other flags, if there's a tunnel system on a map, how many flags in total on a map, etc, etc.

You don't need to walk from one main to another on Hastings because both teams have choppers and an airplane. You don't need to walk at all if there are 1-7 players, because the whole battle can take place in air. Of course, if you try to take one main, or even both, then no vehicles will spawn and Hastings will become boring and large too, but it's not so by default.

On Fall of Saigon flags are located far from each other and only 1 team have 1 plane, so players have to fight only on the ground. Con Thien have 2 choppers for each team and no jets. And maybe there are enough choppers there, but this map has too many flags and it is not easy to force other team's tickets to bleed. As a result, this map takes too long to play. On Cedar Falls there's a huge imbalance: US has 2 choppers and 2 planes, and NVA has none. Let's also not forget about the tunnel system (it's 2x more space to walk) and how far US main is from the enemy flags!

All bfv maps are good and awesome, but some are not intended for low number of players like we have in 2020, and that's why they become "boring", "unpopular" and "large". It's not like something we have in Battlefield 2, different size versions of the same map, so different sets could be played depending on the number of players currently present.

This has kind of happened before:
After a few people asked for this in 2018, @IceSkater tried removing some of the maps and this backfired. His intentions, similar to yours were to encourage more traffic. After serious discussions on this topic, there was a forum vote held here and an overwhelming majority voted to RESTORE ALL MAPS. It turns out that every map is favored by some player or the other, therefore removing any map(s) will lead to loss of players on this server. That historic forum vote thread has mysteriously disappeared/deleted ( https://forum.helloclan.eu/threads/8270/page-3 ).

I remember, but he proposed to remove some maps on constant basis, right? But I am suggestin to pay attention to irregular flow of players during weekends and weekdays and delete some maps only on weekdays, when there are very few players playing. Isn't it a totally different thing?

Since we already have Mapvote turned ON, I request you not to remove maps during weekdays because whatever little chance that players like @mRoRange, DiscoMagpie, @hard_rice, Petter-PANG!, myself, and others have in playing rare maps during weekdays is forcibly taken away.

You're requesting this, but you're rarely playing on weekdays yourself?

GameTracker.com : Player Page for x4|Al Gore

Besides, how many times have you seen rare maps being played on weekdays? Even if it's time for Ia Drang or Irving or LZA players will more likely quit or vote for hastings rather than play these maps. I am not even speaking of maps like Cedar Falls or Fall of Saigon now because I don't remember when was the last time it was played on weekdays. What's the point of keeping it in the map order on weekdays if it never been played in this time of week? If there are several players who like to play it on weekdays, as you say, why there are no successful votes for it on weekdays? All it takes is 68%.
By removing some maps on weekdays our server will not stop being All Maps, because everyone will have a chance to play it on weekends, when most people play the game?

It is being predicted that a second wave of COVID19 is beginning now. We may see a repeat of huge numbers of players coming to the server even on weekdays, as we experienced during the beginning of the first wave in March and April this year. Hopefully during these coming winter months when more and more people are indoors, regardless of COVID19 status, we will see more traffic throughout the weekends and weekdays.

I am not talking about holidays like new year or hard to predict events like 2nd wave here. In such times there are relatively enough players to play rare maps, so I think it doesn't even matter in what order maps are placed in maplist, because in this times of year we manage to play every map in the list, and even go for the second cycle.

Well Said@ x4|Al Gore!

A little bit more particular about what are you agreeing on with x4|Al Gore? Do you support his idea of bringing back the old map order list from 2018?

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

In your last posts you were discussing about many different things: players, map votings, Nagi; but I guess you moved a little bit away from your initial proposal.

You suggested this map list from 2018 to be put on constant basis now. I had doubts regarding some aspects of this suggestion, so in order to hear your opinion I asked you some more questions, yet I still haven't received a single answer.

You're still proposing this, right?

5.) Back to your suggestion:

I don't remember how it was in 2018, but I think there were several map orders that year. How long this one was in place?

I can see Hue+Quang Tri and Reclaiming Hue+Quang Tri are placed together.
Don't you think players are going to get bored with too much ground maps going one after another?
Reclaiming Hue is a very long map, should we put quang tri after it?

Hastings + Dart + Khe Sahn - not too many air maps at the beginning? There are many players who prefer ground maps more.

Fall of Saigon + Cedar Falls + Ia Drang - don't you think it's too many large maps to play simultaneously?

Maybe this map order will pass on weekends, but what about weekdays with only few players on?
Do you think 8 players are going to play Irving+Con Thien+Reclaiming?

 

[x4|Al Gore]

I'm not sure why you keep saying that these players are supporting your idea. How can you possibly know their point of view on that topic? Analyzing in-game chat only?

Unfortunately @Petter-Pang! is not registered on the forum. He has not been in the game since several months. I hope he is okay. @Petter-Pang! and I really like Fall of Saigon and we have discussed this several times. All the player's names that I mentioned have, at some point during the past months expressed desire to play the bottom-of-the-current-maplist-maps such as Fall of Saigon, Quang Tri 1972, and Operation Cedar Falls. I remember Disco specifically asking to play one of the lower maps and he was not happy with Mapvote being spammed by Paranoid and server repeatedly switching back to Operation Hastings before the players can finish playing the remaining maps. It doesn't appear that Disco changed his mind. He simply doesn't like La Drang Valley especially when he is on the NVA Red team.

I can go in to chatlogs from weeks and months ago to find proof but it will take a lot of time. You can also note from the chatlog that he pretends that he is not registered on the forum while in fact he is playing with a different name. I cannot speak for the rest of players such as @mRoRange and @hard_rice both have expressed desire to play lower maps at some point during the past weeks/months. Why they are not joining this conversation nor supporting my calls? Perhaps they are afraid of not crossing the clan leader. They probably see that my lone attempt have not been successful so why would they join me? Better to stay out of this discussion and let the clan leader do whatever he wants right? If this server is eventually removing all maps and going the HHK-Helokillers - Operation Hastings Only Server and they are okay with that, then fine!

On Cedar Falls there's a huge imbalance: US has 2 choppers and 2 planes, and NVA has none. Let's also not forget about the tunnel system (it's 2x more space to walk) and how far US main is from the enemy flags!

Although there is a huge imbalance in this map as also in La Drang Vally, I remember the NVA Red team winning this map several times. This was done by successfully defending the higher counts of Red maps, capturing the Blue main air base, and using their aircraft against Blue players and flags, defending or recapturing the tunnels from Blue team, and many more tactics. The same can be said for La Drang Valley. Just in recent weeks the Blue team lost in La Drang Valley because they were unable to hold on to Red flags.

You're requesting this, but you're rarely playing on weekdays yourself?
GameTracker.com : Player Page for x4|Al Gore

I do check Hello server on Gametracker several times everyday including weekdays. Unfortunately most of the times Operation Hastings or another one of the top of the current-maplist-maps is going on. I am BORED to repeatedly play these maps. So either I don't come on Hello on most weekdays, or I go to the other servers.

Besides, how many times have you seen rare maps being played on weekdays?

Since you have set the server to restart on Operation Hastings after the last player leaves, Mapvote Always ON, and rare maps at the bottom of the list, obviously we will never reach rare maps on weekdays. First you intentionally design it such a way and then you ask "how many times have you seen rare maps being played on weekdays?"? It is unfortunate that the clan leader dislikes several maps on an All Maps Server. Every map is favorite of some player or the other. By removing any maps on any days, you are effectly removing players from the server. So much for increasing traffic!

On Fall of Saigon flags are located far from each other and only 1 team have 1 plane, so players have to fight only on the ground.

You mentioned that "only 1 team have 1 plane, so players have to fight only on the ground." Please remember that for this specific reason the Red team is equipped with BRDM Malyutka Complex. It is great defensive weapon system. Ask @Jum_P He and I have used it extensively to defend Red flags, take down tanks, and the 1 plane. This is precisely what happened in the actual Vietnam War. The Americans had air power while the North Vietnamese were defending with either crude tactics such as tunnels, or sophisticated weapons such as the SA-7, ZSU, and BRDM Malyutka Complex which were supplied by the communists in China and Soviet Union.

Con Thien have 2 choppers for each team and no jets. And maybe there are enough choppers there, but this map has too many flags and it is not easy to force other team's tickets to bleed. As a result, this map takes too long to play.

Con Thien is the greatest helicopter map on BFV because of the variety of helicopters available, the terrain, and how the flags are distributed evenly. This is also a fantastic map for "players who prefer ground maps more". Many have been enjoying this map on Hello All Maps Server including myself since 2015 with many past and current players. This map has seen full numbers of players especially on weekends. There is absolutely no reason why this map had to be dropped to the bottom of the list. If I remember correctly, Hello Server's maps did not have expiring tickets until recently. I remember that a map could go on indefinitely unless the players chose to end the map by taking flags to go the next map. Please remember that when players are enjoying a map, and if it "takes too long to play" then this is a good thing.

By removing some maps on weekdays our server will not stop being All Maps, because everyone will have a chance to play it on weekends, when most people play the game?

Since you have yourself admitted that rare maps are not being played on weekdays (how many times have you seen rare maps being played on weekdays?) then why remove them at all? Mapvotes ON, and setting the server to start on Operation Hastings at all times takes care of your problem, doesn't it? There is no need to remove any maps because you have already set the provisions for majority of players to play whatever maps they wish to play, and the server is always on Operations Hastings when it is empty.

A little bit more particular about what are you agreeing on with x4|Al Gore? Do you support his idea of bringing back the old map order list from 2018?

First of all, before you grill @LTShaun let me remind you that I never suggested the "idea of bringing back the old map order list from 2018".

If you remember, on October 10th this year, less than a month ago, I recommended a new map list with details in (helloclan.eu/conversations/16967/) which you said you did not understand and asked be brought to this general forum for public discussion.

I only showed a picture of the old map list from 2018 as a reference to which maps were being played more often those days, and now do not get played as often because they have been dropped to the bottom of the list in the current (2020) maplist.

From conversation:
"Here are my recommendations for a new map list:
0 Operation Irving
1 Operation Cedar Falls
2 Fall of Lang Vei
3 Fall of Saigon
4 Siege of Khe Sahn
5 Defense of Con Thien
6 Saigon - 1968
7 The la Drang Valley
8 Quang Tri - 1968
9 Quang Tri - 1972
10 Hue - 1968
11 Reclaiming Hue
12 Cambodian Incursion
13 Ho Chi Minh Trail
14 Landing Zone Albany
15 Operation Hastings
16 Operation Flaming Dart
17 Operation Game Warden
"

I don't remember how it was in 2018, but I think there were several map orders that year. How long this one was in place?

This 2018 maplist order was unchanged until 2019. This one was in place long enough because I referred to this list to check which map is next. I referred to it for a long time until you changed the maplist recently.

I can see Hue+Quang Tri and Reclaiming Hue+Quang Tri are placed together.
Don't you think players are going to get bored with too much ground maps going one after another?
Reclaiming Hue is a very long map, should we put quang tri after it?

I agree with you. I never said that this 2018 maplist order was perfect. What I was trying to explain is that during that time (2018), players got to play maps-on-the-bottom-of-the-current-maplist more often than now because they were either on the top or in the middle of the maplist. While my recommended maplist has gathered all the ground maps together, so that "players who prefer ground maps more" get to play all of them at the same time; I also asked you in the conversation: "Could you move the Jungle maps (Cambodia Incursion & Ho Chi Minh Trail) and City maps (Hue - 1968, Quang Tri 1968, Reclaiming Hue, Quang Tri - 1972) maps on the bottom of the list?"

I have no objection to stagger and spread out these ground maps. In fact I already suggested that if we shuffle the maps in maplist often and randomly then it will be more fun. A random list of maps ensures that all maps get the same amount of play time. As I said before, some maps such as Quang Tri 1972 and Operation Cedar Falls haven't been played since many months, even when the server is full of players, which is an ideal time for play on these maps.

Here's my suggestion from the conversation: "Is it possible that you could reshuffle the map list in such a way that players can once again experience other maps that are currently in the lower part of the map list which we never get to play? Everyone leaves by the time we reach middle maps, or a successful "Operation Hastings" Map Vote restarts the map cycle to the first map on the list."

Hastings + Dart + Khe Sahn - not too many air maps at the beginning? There are many players who prefer ground maps more.

So these players "who prefer ground maps more" would also not be happy with starting on Operation Hastings every time and Operation Hastings being voted on repeatedly, correct? Also, according to my recommended maplist from (https://forum.helloclan.eu/conversations/16967/) Khe Sahn is #4 on the list, while Hastings is #15, and Dart is #16, followed by Game Warden as the last map on the list.

Fall of Saigon + Cedar Falls + Ia Drang - don't you think it's too many large maps to play simultaneously?

In my recommended maplist from conversation Fall of Saigon is #3, Cedar Falls is #1, and La Drang is #7.

Maybe this map order will pass on weekends, but what about weekdays with only few players on?
Do you think 8 players are going to play Irving+Con Thien+Reclaiming?

First of all, in my recommended list in conversation Irving is #1, Con Thien is #5, and Reclaiming is #11.

Secondly, over the past 15 years many players and I have enjoyed several maps with 8 or less players including Irving+Con Thien+Reclaiming with Reclaiming being the lesser than the other two for obvious reasons.

In Irving if 4 players are in Blue team, 2-3 will man the F4 and two Hueys, while 1 only takes flags repeatedly. 4 players on the Red team spread out and defend each flag. If one flag gets captured by Blue, then the player assigned to the lost flag spawns at the nearest flag or tunnel and attempts to recapture the lost flag.

In Con Thein all 8 players can man the 4 helicopters to have air battles similar to how 4-8 players can have a perfect air battle in Hastings with only helicopters. 2 players from Blue team fly in the Cobra, while 2 fly in the Loach, one repairing it with wrench constantly. 2 players from Red team fly in the KA-25 two fly in the Mi-8. The Mi-8 and Loach co-pilots can jump off to recapture lost flags from the opposite team.

Reclaiming Hue is still a fine map with 8 players but this completely depends on the 8 players and their skills. It has been on the sever all these years and it has done just fine.

@hard_rice was correct! I hope you and will go back to your opinion about mapvote and turn it off. I admit that I was wrong to recommend turning it on. It has become a constant spam problem. Some players who are known to be deliberately trying to disrupt this server have used it as a tool to annoy and force other players to leave by spamming the mapvote repeatedly until finally when enough genuine players leave and then the vote goes through and the disruptor wins.

Finally the good news is that a few other interesting BFV servers have popped up recently. Upon your request I worked on a long and detailed SSM suggestion which turned out to be a complete waste of time. But other new SSM servers recently started and they are a lot of fun. There is at least one BFV MOD servers which is a ton of fun.

I believe we both have the same interest of increasing traffic. Our difference is that I want to bring back old players who prefer All Maps, while you prefer to appease new disruptive players so that they stay longer as has happened recently.

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

Unfortunately Peter Pang is not registered on the forum.

But you were replying to his post in this thread: I couldn't believe it ??...

All the player's names that I mentioned have, at some point during the past months expressed desire to play the bottom-of-the-current-maplist-maps such as Fall of Saigon, Quang Tri 1972, and Operation Cedar Falls. I remember Disco specifically asking to play one of the lower maps and he was not happy with Mapvote being spammed by Paranoid and server repeatedly switching back to Operation Hastings before the players can finish playing the remaining maps. It doesn't appear that Disco changed his mind. He simply doesn't like La Drang Valley especially when he is on the NVA Red team.

I can go in to chatlogs from weeks and months ago to find proof but it will take a lot of time. You can also note from the chatlog that he pretends that he is not registered on the forum while in fact he is playing with a different name.

All Maps - Chat Log Details

Here he said to you: "I like the server the way it is " and nothing particular about your suggestion. He was even in favor of removing at least one unpopular map
The problem is, players do not take in-game chat seriously and can say one thing on one day, and completely different opinion on the same thing on another day.
That's why all important discussions must take place only on our forum. He was never registered here. And despite your invitation to support your idea on forums, he's still not here, so so far I can see only your vote for this.

I cannot speak for the rest of players such as @mRoRange and @hard_rice both have expressed desire to play lower maps at some point during the past weeks/months. Why they are not joining this conversation nor supporting my calls? Perhaps they are afraid of not crossing the clan leader. They probably see that my lone attempt have not been successful so why would they join me? Better to stay out of this discussion and let the clan leader do whatever he wants right? If this server is eventually removing all maps and going the HHK-Helokillers - Operation Hastings Only Server and they are okay with that, then fine!

Let's ask them if they are reading this!
Hey guys, mRoRange and hard_rice! Are you really afraid of crossing me, the all-mighty Clan Leader?

And why the hell are you even talking about "crossing" here, Al? It is a public discussion about new suggestion where everyone are free to vote FOR or AGAINST new changes. How one can possibly "cross" another here? If no one else replies here, perhaps they disagree / like the way it is now / don't care ?

Although there is a huge imbalance in this map as also in La Drang Vally, I remember the NVA Red team winning this map several times. This was done by successfully defending the higher counts of Red maps, capturing the Blue main air base, and using their aircraft against Blue players and flags, defending or recapturing the tunnels from Blue team, and many more tactics. The same can be said for La Drang Valley. Just in recent weeks the Blue team lost in La Drang Valley because they were unable to hold on to Red flags.

Sure, as I said earlier, it is fun to play even with imbalance... But with bunch of players and not when there are more flags on the map than actual players!
By the way, Disco also suggested in game chat to remove Ia Drang or put it on the bottom of the map list...

It doesn't matter really what I think about this or what you think, it's all speculations for now. The quantity of players on our server and what maps the majority prefer is matters.

I do check Hello server on Gametracker several times everyday including weekdays. Unfortunately most of the times Operation Hastings or another one of the top of the current-maplist-maps is going on. I am BORED to repeatedly play these maps. So either I don't come on Hello on most weekdays, or I go to the other servers.

Then join the other players on Operation Hastings and vote for Fall of Saigon or any other map you want. If there are enough players ready to play the same map you would like to play vote for it, they'll have a chance to play it. What's the problem? Maybe the problem is that there are not so many players around who like to play these maps?

Since you have set the server to restart on Operation Hastings after the last player leaves, Mapvote Always ON, and rare maps at the bottom of the list, obviously we will never reach rare maps on weekdays. First you intentionally design it such a way and then you ask "how many times have you seen rare maps being played on weekdays?"? It is unfortunate that the clan leader dislikes several maps on an All Maps Server. Every map is favorite of some player or the other. By removing any maps on any days, you are effectly removing players from the server. So much for increasing traffic!

I didn't set the server to restart on Operation Hastings! Why are you lying that I "intentionally design it such a way"?
Operation Hastings is first in the list because it's the most popular map on the server and it was first for many many years, way before I stepped in, when SK and IceSkater were around.

I already said that I like all maps when there are enough players. Did you even read what I wrote earlier?
It is also not up to what I like/dislike, but to how many players like/dislike it.

You mentioned that "only 1 team have 1 plane, so players have to fight only on the ground." Please remember that for this specific reason the Red team is equipped with BRDM Malyutka Complex. It is great defensive weapon system. Ask @Jum_P He and I have used it extensively to defend Red flags, take down tanks, and the 1 plane. This is precisely what happened in the actual Vietnam War. The Americans had air power while the North Vietnamese were defending with either crude tactics such as tunnels, or sophisticated weapons such as the SA-7, ZSU, and BRDM Malyutka Complex which were supplied by the communists in China and Soviet Union.

Again, what is this all about? I'm not arguing that it's not fun, it is. But only when there are enough players.
Yet you keep speaking on behalf of other players. We can't know either Jum_P would like to play this map when there are only 2 (6, 10?) players around or not.

Con Thien is the greatest helicopter map on BFV because of the variety of helicopters available, the terrain, and how the flags are distributed evenly. This is also a fantastic map for "players who prefer ground maps more". Many have been enjoying this map on Hello All Maps Server including myself since 2015 with many past and current players. This map has seen full numbers of players especially on weekends. There is absolutely no reason why this map had to be dropped to the bottom of the list. If I remember correctly, Hello Server's maps did not have expiring tickets until recently. I remember that a map could go on indefinitely unless the players chose to end the map by taking flags to go the next map. Please remember that when players are enjoying a map, and if it "takes too long to play" then this is a good thing.

Oh please, why are you talking about 2015?? There were so much more players back then! It is incomparable with 2020.
And again, it is a fantastic map like all the other maps, but only with enough players ready to play it, especially if it "takes too long to play".

First of all, before you grill @LTShaun

Grill

I just asked what he's thinking about your idea, since he replied here. Does he agree with everything you say? Or only with some part of it? It's hard to say exactly what he's thinking looking back at his reply.


Looking back to your posts:

Can you please reintroduce AIR *LARGE* maps at least in the center (middle) of the list so that we can play them again? Thank you! Attached pictures of map list from 2018 and current map list. IMO the previous map list from 2018 was just fine because we got to play ALL MAPS and Map Vote Turned Off.

I never said that this 2018 maplist order was perfect.

... let me remind you that I never suggested the "idea of bringing back the old map order list from 2018".

I only showed a picture of the old map list from 2018 as a reference to which maps were being played more often those days, and now do not get played as often because they have been dropped to the bottom of the list in the current (2020) maplist.

First 2018 map list was "just fine", than it's "not perfect", then "I never suggested the "idea of bringing back the old map order list from 2018"" and then you "showed a picture of the old map list as a reference".
So what is it exactly?

If you remember, on October 10th this year, less than a month ago, I recommended a new map list with details in (helloclan.eu/conversations/16967/) which you said you did not understand and asked be brought to this general forum for public discussion.

From conversation:
"Here are my recommendations for a new map list:
0 Operation Irving
1 Operation Cedar Falls
2 Fall of Lang Vei
3 Fall of Saigon
4 Siege of Khe Sahn
5 Defense of Con Thien
6 Saigon - 1968
7 The la Drang Valley
8 Quang Tri - 1968
9 Quang Tri - 1972
10 Hue - 1968
11 Reclaiming Hue
12 Cambodian Incursion
13 Ho Chi Minh Trail
14 Landing Zone Albany
15 Operation Hastings
16 Operation Flaming Dart
17 Operation Game Warden
"

While my recommended maplist has gathered all the ground maps together, so that "players who prefer ground maps more" get to play all of them at the same time; I also asked you in the conversation: "Could you move the Jungle maps (Cambodia Incursion & Ho Chi Minh Trail) and City maps (Hue - 1968, Quang Tri 1968, Reclaiming Hue, Quang Tri - 1972) maps on the bottom of the list?"

Here's my suggestion from the conversation: "Is it possible that you could reshuffle the map list in such a way that players can once again experience other maps that are currently in the lower part of the map list which we never get to play? Everyone leaves by the time we reach middle maps, or a successful "Operation Hastings" Map Vote restarts the map cycle to the first map on the list."

In my recommended maplist from conversation Fall of Saigon is #3, Cedar Falls is #1, and La Drang is #7.

First of all, in my recommended list in conversation Irving is #1, Con Thien is #5, and Reclaiming is #11.

On Oct 10th (11th) 2020 you created a new conversation where you started your message with words "Hello admins, ".
I replied to you with "I believe this topic of discussion is important enough to be seen by all the players so they could express their opinion. Perhaps it would be better to post it on regular forum? ".

You made a new public thread (posted suggestion here) where you put map list from 2018 and not the main one you proposed in conversations. Why?
Why should I look back at your conversation message if only this public thread matters because all of our other users can see only what you posted here?
Why you didn't put your recommendation list here so all users could vote on this? How they can possibly know what were you saying in conversation?
This doesn't make any sence.

Going back to your conversation message you also said:

Attached pics of how the maps used to be two years ago and now. I really liked it that way it was two years ago.

@hard_rice was correct! I hope you and will go back to your opinion about mapvote and turn it off. I admit that I was wrong to recommend turning it on. It has become a constant spam problem. Some players who are known to be deliberately trying to disrupt this server have used it as a tool to annoy and force other players to leave by spamming the mapvote repeatedly until finally when enough genuine players leave and then the vote goes through and the disruptor wins.

Oh, since you found this thread about map vote topic, I can also put here your previous reply about your point of view regarding map vote:

Dear Admins,

Please re-enable Map Vote. Most of the times there are few players online and during such times, most of the players are in favor to end current map, in order to get to a preferred map. Sometimes we want to fly helicopters, sometimes we want to fly fighter jets, sometimes we want a river map, sometimes we are in the mood to play like land maps with no aircraft. Please bring back democracy! You can set the Map Vote to a high number % to make sure that almost all the players want to change the map. You can tweek this number over time. I would also like to enable Kick Vote but that's a separate topic. Thanks!

I heard you and other players back then when you were saying "Please bring back democracy!" and I turned the map vote on.
Now you are suggesting to turn it off just because you and a few other players (which is still unconfirmed, so it's only you for now) don't have a chance to play some boring maps? What happened to democracy and what maps the majority of players want to play?

Moreover, now you're saying that you suggesting to turn it off only because of a spam problem and not because you don't have chance to play certain maps?
Suddenly changed your opinion regarding the main reason why it should be turned off?

Finally the good news is that a few other interesting BFV servers have popped up recently. Upon your request I worked on a long and detailed SSM suggestion which turned out to be a complete waste of time. But other new SSM servers recently started and they are a lot of fun. There is at least one BFV MOD servers which is a ton of fun.

I am sorry that I don't have enough time to work on that. As the CL I have to work on many other stuff like catching hackers, checking players reports, providing help for users both here on forums and Discord, searching for potential ban evaders, replying to long users' messages and suggestions like yours, checking logs, clear forum spam, etc., etc. I am already wasting a great portion of my personal time here and don't even get paid for that, just like other admins, and now you are accusing me that I don't have time for SSM, which is even not so essential compare to other admin activities? I am sorry, I also have to spend some time on my real life to earn for living.

You know that making a SSM suggestion is an easiest part? How long do you think is taking to make a modded map in BattleCraft Vietnam? To replace flags, vehicles, ammo points and make sure the newly modified map wont crash the server when launched on the main server with many players on? How many hours of testing do you think is it taking?

Currently I am the only one working with users' SSM ideas. I asked you in PM once if you're able to help me with the actual modding so it would go faster, but you couldn't provide me such help.

Besides, as I already told once, this can be applied only when many players are online, because there are really few who likes SSM here and previous discussions proved it. I was thinking of returning to that on winter holidays when there are more players than usual and when I have a little more free time.

It is funny how you say "upon your request". Is has never been MY request. I like the standard maps just enough. But I heard many times that some players would like to see some SSM once in a while, so that's why I created this thread, to receive player's requests.

After all this, it turned out that it is me who requested SSM in the first place and now I am being accused that I am unable to sacrifice more personal time to this?
Well, sorry!

I wasn't obliged to implement SSM here at all and did it only out of respect for our very few players, who like SSM, including you, and that's the gratefulness I receive back. No other clan leaders, as I know of, have been doing something similar, perhaps I shouldn't have been wasting my time on this as well.

If you really like to play SSM I hope you will have a lot of fun on a mod server, perhaps admins there will response to your ideas much faster and implement it in the same day for enjoyment of their players, because I am alone unable to provide it here.

I believe we both have the same interest of increasing traffic. Our difference is that I want to bring back old players who prefer All Maps, while you prefer to appease new disruptive players so that they stay longer as has happened recently.

I believe we don't.

It looks like your only interest is to enforce certain server changes so you could play your favorite maps, despite what the rest of our players think about it. That's why your initial proposal were made in conversation message, addressed to admins only, and not in the public thread. That's why you keep speaking on behalf of other players and not a single one of them replied here though it's been almost a month. That's also why you are upset that no other players support your ideas and simultaneously mad at me because I refuse to apply it right away without players' consent.
That also explains why you suddenly started to be upset with completely unrelated to your suggestion things, like SSM maps.


I am, on the other hand, doesn't really care what maps to play. I am usually playing only on weekends, from the start of maplist and till the end of the day, until no players left to play with. I am, however, almost always around, so I am observing how many players playing which maps at what time. Unlike you, as the CL I can't put my personal interest in front of other players', so I am speaking only basing on my observations what players prefer/don't prefer.

I am interested, however, in increasing the server's traffic. I am evaluating the current server status and the opinions of players, who playing here and now, in 2020.
Why should I consider what old players think (said in the distant past), if they are not playing here anymore or not active on forum for a long time?
I am listening to all current players, so if you say that I "prefer to appease new disruptive players", does it mean you refer all players that play in 2020 as disruptive players?

I also heard your opinion, loud and clear, though didn't entirely understand what it was all about.

Was is about bringing back 2018 map list?
Was it about enforcing a new mysterious map order you've been talking about in conversation messages the majority of our users have no idea about?
Was it about turning off mapvote?
Was it somehow about SSM?
Was it about reshuffling the map list and putting some unpopular maps in the beginning or in the middle? Then perhaps you can provide us all with a final and particular map order suggestion?

I am ready to implement almost anything (with the few exceptions) , as long as the majority of our players wants to see it.

It is also the reason why the map vote is active, because it helps to take into account not what 1 or 4 players think, but what the majority think about it and automatically change the current map accordingly to what most players think. And it appears that even spam map votes cannot shadow the main advantage of the voting system.
But you stopped to believe in democracy, right?

So far I can see only your suggestion, which is still vague and not formed properly, and no particular feedbacks from our other users.

Please, no need more in-game chat logs, because it proves absolutely nothing and just a waste of time. I can also look into logs and find completely opposite things being said from the same users. This forum is the only place to discuss such important topics and if users are interested they will register and reply here.

I didn't understand, and somehow I have a feeling that the rest of our users also didn't understand what were you trying to say exactly, maybe that's why no one agrees with you? I am kind of tired of guessing what are you trying to say here, so how about in your next post you make your final suggestion, if you still want to suggest something, simple and understandable. Like so?:

I suggest to implement this map order:

0 Operation Irving
1 Operation Cedar Falls
2 Fall of Lang Vei
3 Fall of Saigon
4 Siege of Khe Sahn
5 Defense of Con Thien
6 Saigon - 1968
7 The la Drang Valley
8 Quang Tri - 1968
9 Quang Tri - 1972
10 Hue - 1968
11 Reclaiming Hue
12 Cambodian Incursion
13 Ho Chi Minh Trail
14 Landing Zone Albany
15 Operation Hastings
16 Operation Flaming Dart
17 Operation Game Warden

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

here you hit right to the point, he just doesn't want to change anything, despite the fact that when you offer him an option, he says that it is useless, why then even talk about some kind of change in the gaming experience?

You had your chance of changing things here in your SSM thread:

New SSM maps

First of all, I want to say hello to all users of the Hello clan and apologize me for my bad english (use translater), I've been here recently, although I've been playing on the Battlefield Vietnam server for about a year. So to the topic - I'm do not like changing gameplay, but I like to...

helloclan.eu

Not a single player voted FOR this since July, so what's with I don't want this? Players don't, as you can see yourself! And it's the only thing that matters.

And why you keep posting here KGC modding news? You already posted about what players can find there, so if they want to play it they know where to look.
This forum is intended for HELLO related things only, so your similar messages in future will be considered as spam.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

But you were replying to his post in this thread: I couldn't believe it ??...

In all previous comments in this thread I tried to tag @Petter-Pang! with @ symbol before his name his name did not appear as it does for other players. I had forgotten that Peter Pang! was registered on this forum until you showed the thread today. I also realize that I have been misspelling his name as Peter while it is actually Petter. Even now when I tried to tag him with @ Petter is is not showing up. I finally figured out how code it manually but I doubt if he will still receive a notification because he has not been seen on the forum since March this year. If you see this @Petter-Pang! please read above comments in this thread where I mentioned your name with a spelling mistake.

The problem is, players do not take in-game chat seriously and can say one thing on one day, and completely different opinion on the same thing on another day.
That's why all important discussions must take place only on our forum. He was never registered here. And despite your invitation to support your idea on forums, he's still not here, so so far I can see only your vote for this.

I agree with you, and you are correct about not taking in-game chat conversations seriously. Disco's U-turn, and other players not responding to this thread proved this point. Lesson learned!

Let's ask them if they are reading this!
Hey guys, mRoRange and hard_rice! Are you really afraid of crossing me, the all-mighty Clan Leader?

All mighty indeed!

Why Orange, Hard Rice, Jum_p and other players don't respond? Some of them probably did not subscribe to be notified to this forum. Perhaps there is a forum setting that prevents them to be notified when they are tagged in a thread. There was a time when this forum was very busy. I used to receive countless notifications via email. So I turned it off. But since last year I turned it back on as the activity has reduced (especially after pinky became inactive) and notifications are reasonable. Hopefully when they finally read this thread, they may respond.

It doesn't matter really what I think about this or what you think, it's all speculations for now. The quantity of players on our server and what maps the majority prefer is matters.

It is funny how you admins claim to ask for feedback and when one person does, he is pushed back. Do you think any other player is now encouraged to voice his/her ideas, suggestions, or feedback after seeing the response I got? Doubtful!

I didn't set the server to restart on Operation Hastings! Why are you lying that I "intentionally design it such a way"?
Operation Hastings is first in the list because it's the most popular map on the server and it was first for many many years, way before I stepped in, when SK and IceSkater were around.

I remember in the past when all the players left the server and the server was empty, the map remained where the players left, until the next player joined the game and that map continued from there. Intentional design meaning, its probably something to do with changes you or previous admins made to tickets which now forces a map to end; and another server setting that resets the game to the first map on the maplist when the last player leaves from any other map. This gives more gameplay to one particular map instead of allowing players to play other maps from where they left off. Before it was not like this.

The annoyance now is that Operation Hastings gets more playtime because it is always running until the first player joins, and then thanks to certain new player's repeated spam mapvotes, which eventually succeeds in changing from anywhere on the maplist back to Operation Hastings again and again and again. This is why players have been unable to even reach Quang Tri 1972 or Operation Cedar Falls since many months. I have been trying to get your attention on this problem but you either chose to look away, or claim that this is how it should be. That is why I said "intentionally designed it such a way" because you seem to be happy with the disruptive spam mapvotes when you said: "it appears that even spam map votes cannot shadow the main advantage of the voting system."

First 2018 map list was "just fine", than it's "not perfect", then "I never suggested the "idea of bringing back the old map order list from 2018"" and then you "showed a picture of the old map list as a reference".

I had forgotten to copy paste my recommended maplist from conversation to this thread, until you claimed to LtShaun that I wanted the 2018 maplist back which is not true. You assumed that I wanted the 2018 maplist back simply because I posted a picture of it. If I post a picture of the maplist of 2005, that doesn't mean I want that exact order of maplist back.

So what is it exactly?

I said it was "just fine" meaning better than the current maplist, because those days we got to play ALL MAPS and the MapVote was OFF. I never asked you said to bring the 2018 maplist back. You assumed that I wanted the 2018 maplist back even though you I had sent a different maplist in the conversation.

Oh, since you found this thread about map vote topic, I can also put here your previous reply about your point of view regarding map vote:

Not only did I find this thread about map vote topic, but I also posted a link to my own comment, which you so graciously copy pasted

I heard you and other players back then when you were saying "Please bring back democracy!" and I turned the map vote on.

Yes because as @hard_rice and you said last year, some players misuse mapvote. When I asked to bring back democracy, I did not foresee that an election will be initiated every 180 seconds repeatedly after most players vote NO every time. When this started to happen, I understood that Hard Rice was correct about the abuse of mapvote.

@Petter-Pang!

Looking back to your posts:

The benefits of map voting are obvious when there are only few players online, no doubts. However, how @hard_rice@ mentioned, it is a subject for a constant abuse. As you can see even from this old thread, there were many attempts to re-enable it, but every attempt failed due to the malicious usage of it. Yes, you can set the map vote to a high %, but there's no standard option to change time periods between votes, which is now about 180 seconds. I haven't looked thoroughly into this mechanism yet, so if somebody knows how to change it safely, post it here and maybe map voting will live again!
---As for now, I can suggest the only option available: if there are only few players on the server and everybody wants to get map changed, try to ask an admin for that. Even if it seems there are currently no admins online, they may hear you anyway through remote application. I am sure they won't refuse of such request!

And it appears that even spam map votes cannot shadow the main advantage of the voting system.

What a contrast from Dec 2019 to Oct 2020 on mapvote abuse.

Now you are suggesting to turn it off just because you and a few other players (which is still unconfirmed, so it's only you for now) don't have a chance to play some boring maps?

"boring maps" according to whom? There is no such thing as a "boring map" on an All Maps Server. Since there is open bias against some maps, it is not hard to see what is going on:

• U-turn on mapvote abuse.
• So-called-"boring maps" are now at the bottom of current maplist, which are unreachable since months with or without many players. (Quang Tri 1972 & Operation Cedar Falls)
• % of a Yes votes in mapvote reduced to make it easier to change to another map which disrupts map-order flow.
• Complaints about disruptive players abusing mapvote being unanswered. This serves the purpose of preventing the so-called-"boring maps" from coming on, due to repeated spam mapvotes every 180 seconds.
• Removing so-called-"boring maps" from the server on weekdays even with:
  • Mapvote ON.
  • So-called-"boring maps" being at the bottom of current maplist.
  • Operation Hastings always on when server is empty.
  • Repeated mapvote abuse going on weekdays too.

It looks like your only interest is to enforce certain server changes so you could play your favorite maps, despite what the rest of our players think about it. That's why your initial proposal were made in conversation message, addressed to admins only, and not in the public thread.

I like to play All Maps, and All Maps are my favorite including Hastings, Dart, Saigon 1968, etc. This is precisely what brought me to Hello server many years ago. Sometimes I miss playing air maps when ground maps are going on for too long. In the same way when I notice Hastings being played repeatedly then that also causes map fatigue.

I only initiated this request after other players expressed similar interests while we were in the game. As I said above, they may not be notified about this thread, or are overlooking their notifications, or have changed their mind, or are too intimidated (afraid) to agree with me looking at the reception that I have received in this thread. (Fear tactics). We can see above that when @LTShaun and @Pipiska Cheburator liked or agreed with my suggestions, you immediately went after them. @mRoRange recently experienced something similar when there was an attempt to publicly embarrass him on this forum for his in game comments about hacking. I think he handled it very well being a long time BFV veteran.

 

[x4|Al Gore]

I didn't understand, and somehow I have a feeling that the rest of our users also didn't understand what were you trying to say exactly, maybe that's why no one agrees with you? I am kind of tired of guessing what are you trying to say here, so how about in your next post you make your final suggestion, if you still want to suggest something, simple and understandable. Like so?:

I suggest:

• To implement this map order:
  • 0 Operation Irving
  • 1 Operation Cedar Falls
  • 2 Fall of Lang Vei
  • 3 Fall of Saigon
  • 4 Siege of Khe Sahn
  • 5 Defense of Con Thien
  • 6 Saigon - 1968
  • 7 The la Drang Valley
  • 8 Quang Tri - 1968
  • 9 Quang Tri - 1972
  • 10 Hue - 1968
  • 11 Reclaiming Hue
  • 12 Cambodian Incursion
  • 13 Ho Chi Minh Trail
  • 14 Landing Zone Albany
  • 15 Operation Hastings
  • 16 Operation Flaming Dart
  • 17 Operation Game Warden
• Turn off Mapvote due to constant Mapvote abuse/spam.
• and instead allow admins to manually change the map with a majority vote via chat as we did for many years.
• Keep All Maps on Weekdays and Weekends.
• Uncheck the server setting that forces the server to restart on the first map on the maplist (being Operation Irving if the new maplist is adopted) when the last player leaves. This will allow the next batch of players to continue on the map where the previous batch of players left. This provides continuity to map-order and prevents disruption to map-order flow.
• If no such above mentioned setting exists in server settings, then bring back old tickets system which allowed the maps remain as is when players left.

These steps will bring back a truly All Maps server where players can experience All Battlefield Vietnam Maps and not just a chosen few. Who knows? They may rediscover some maps that they haven't played since many months and remember what they liked (or disliked) about them, which is true for any map with any player.
Thank you!

 

[x4|Al Gore]

here you hit right to the point, he just doesn't want to change anything, despite the fact that when you offer him an option, he says that it is useless, why then even talk about some kind of change in the gaming experience?

Very cool. Here are some pics from RR server in 2005. I replaced Mig17 and Corsair with AC-47s for both teams in Flaming Dart and Hastings. It was a lot of fun. The pilot circled enemy flags while the two gunners on the left fired at infantry and jeeps. Check out pics below:

AC-47's in Hastings

AC-47 in Flaming Dart's Mig17 base

A Chinook ACH-47 in Siege of Khe Sahn

A Red NVA team's KA-25 that replaced default Mi-8. This is a better counter to Blue team's heat seeking missiles from Cobra and F4.

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

Very cool. Here are some pics from RR server in 2005. I replaced Mig17 and Corsair with AC-47s for both teams in Flaming Dart and Hastings. It was a lot of fun. The pilot circled enemy flags while the two gunners on the left fired at infantry and jeeps. Check out pics below:

Oh, so suddenly it turns out that you've been doing modding since 2005 and yet, when I asked you for help in PM to actually work on your ideas, you refused to help? You could've spared some time to help me to mod at least one map by replacing some vehicles long time ago, but instead you chose not to waste your time for this?...
Ehh, you know, it doesn't matter anymore.

It is funny how you admins claim to ask for feedback and when one person does, he is pushed back. Do you think any other player is now encouraged to voice his/her ideas, suggestions, or feedback after seeing the response I got? Doubtful!

You sound like a kid who doesn't get the candy he wants.

First you want to see map vote turned on. Then, when it is turned on and it stopped suiting your personal interests, you want to see it turned off. First it was all about maps you can't reach in the map list. Then you found another reason and started to speak about spam votes..
Even if I turn it off now and after a week or two you suddenly change your opinion once again, should I turn it on again on your first call?

You made your initial suggestion about map order in private conversation, inviting only me, hard_rice, and mRoRange. It is funny how you invited only those players, who you thought are agree with you, and me, who can make it happen, so it would suit your interests perfectly. Did you really think I would make it happen without asking the rest of the players first?

It is twice as funny because in that conversation none of them said anything particular about your suggested map order.
Do you really think they didn't see your suggestion at least back then in conversation? Of course they did.
Now you keep come up with these funny stories how they are afraid to cross the clan leader or how "Some of them probably did not subscribe to be notified to this forum. Perhaps there is a forum setting that prevents them to be notified when they are tagged in a thread. ".

They already saw your suggestion a month ago in your conversation!

After your initial private proposal failed, you agreed to post it in a public thread. But, surprisingly, now you "forgot" to put there the most important thing - your recommended new map list ??? But you didn't forget to post a maplist from 2018, which is, turned out, has nothing to do with your suggestion?


You were never pushed back. You made a suggestion and I counter argued with you from my point of view as a player. See, even here you say "Do you think any other player is now encouraged to voice his/her ideas, suggestions, or feedback after seeing the response I got?". Did you really think everyone is going to agree with you? I am the only person who bothered to reply to your ideas and I disagreed with you, so you decided to be mad at me.


Anyway, this is purely my opinion on what's going on here and other players who read this can disagree with me.

You made your suggestion, but you suggested it not to me, but to all our players.
I've been waiting for a whole month to hear other opinions, but there are none so far.
I'll give it another chance, since we finally got what you are trying to suggest here exactly.

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

There are all i can say to you and i have no more words, If you agree just tell me - i send you it. if no there nothing more for me to do here

Then I believe there's nothing more for you to do here.

I have told you already and I will say this one last time:
it's not so important if I agree with you on this subject or not, because it's all up to our players who play on our server.

Also:

• This forum is the only place for making server suggestions / participating in suggestions.
• Most of our players are aware of this forum, so if they want to participate in something, they will.
• I have access to site statistics and I can assure you that it is more than 3-5 legit registered users visiting forum daily, especially on weekends.
• My initial thread was about implementing a MINOR SSM changes and only for weekends / events, and not to "install it for a week" or make it permanent.
• You had your opportunity and suggested your SSM ideas, but our players rejected it.

Everyone here is aware of your mods on KGC server, and players can go there if they want some SSM. But there are not so many volunteers, so it stays empty. You also can't accept this fact, so you are trying to turn HELLO server into a new KGC server, only because you want to play your mods with real players.
And you don't even care if the majority of our players do not want to see so much SSM here (even Al Gore never replied in your initial thread), once again, only because

i want to play it on hello with many people

 

[[RUS]WàrrióR]

This thread is closed for future discussions.
If there are more users here who would like to see more SSM on our server, send me a PM at anytime.