Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon types

[SucceededKiller]

Hey everyone,

With the recent development regarding EA uploading a BFV iso, and a few reports being made where hacking accusations devolve into personal insults, I think it’s about time we discuss whether hacking accusations, and the insulting of players because of their weapon choice, fall under our “excessive insulting” rule.

If we are going to get new players, I do not want them joining into a toxic atmosphere. Some of them might do well from the get go, but others may not...and no-one is going to stick around if, when they join, they are met with unwelcoming comments from players because they chose to give the M79 a go, or happened to fire a LAW at some infantry. We all want this game to last, and for that to happen we need new players.

It’s the same at the other end of the spectrum where reports from players, like the ones here, regarding hacking accusations have moved on from just comments about their skills, to personal attacks. If your skills are repeatedly put into question, would you want to continue playing?

Now, maybe some players do hack. If that’s the case, we have a Report a Hacker forum where your post will be invisible to players. If you provide the information we request, we will look into the report and, should we believe the accusation to be true, ban the player.

This is the best method for reporting hackers. No hacker is going to keep hacking if you’re on the server shouting “Hacker! Hacker!”, and it just makes the job harder for us. Should the player be innocent, you will have also tainted their reputation. I’ve seen players join the “He’s a hacker” bandwagon just from seeing other people accuse someone of hacking, which makes the situation even more of a problem.

So, what are our options?

1.We prohibit all hacking accusations and the insulting of players based on weapon choice.
2.The admins decide whether a line has been crossed in the situation and use their discretion to act accordingly.

Players that break these rules will be warned to stop, and should they continue they will receive a kick. While I don't want to begin issuing bans on this, if the situation is extreme then admins will be given that option. The ability to ban players for the remainder of the round is already possible.

There is no option for keeping the rules as they are as I do not believe that’s what’s best for us as a server, or a community, if we wish to survive and grow. If you feel differently, however, you are more than welcome to try and persuade me.

Even if we don’t get many new players, we certainly don’t want to drive off the ones we do have.

So, let me know what you think by replying below, and vote in the poll above, and we’ll see what we can come up with.

Regards,
SucceededKiller

 

[RoBoDuCk]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

Great ideas! Perhaps you could make a third option, the rule is only enforceable if the aggrieved player says "stop" or ask the other person to "cut it out". From that point, if the hack accusations continued, the perpetrator could be banned by any admin present or in case of no admins, the player report system could be used.

Being that the password and forum account system that you set up worked so well, none of the players can claim to not know the new rule as they are all now here.

 

[SucceededKiller]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

Perhaps you could make a third option, the rule is only enforceable if the aggrieved player says "stop" or ask the other person to "cut it out". From that point, if the hack accusations continued, the perpetrator could be banned by any admin present or in case of no admins, the player report system could be used.

That would probably fit under admin discretion with the options we have currently, as if a player asks for them to stop then we should be intervening in order to make sure it does.

I didn't want to rely on players having to specifically call it out as I know we have some players that don't talk much, don't seem to be bothered by it, don't have a great grasp of the English language or perhaps they're not in-game at the time. This way even if they don't vocally express that they want it stopped, we can still step it when we see it's getting too much and ruining the environment we are trying to uphold.

 

[Vmax]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

I voted #1 Just so there is a clear and visible line rather than a grey area.

Also I have been a long time advocate of having FF on as a means of keeping us all on our toes so lets not forget that as an option

Regards
Vmax/Rob

 

[Sgt.Barnes]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

Option 1. I was upset that people kept ripping on Christian Able, he always helps me out when I need it, like calling reinforcements and such. I am not in agreement with FF as I seem to always be a target on FF.

 

[SucceededKiller]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

Option 1. I was upset that people kept ripping on Christian Able, he always helps me out when I need it, like calling reinforcements and such.

Did you vote for that in the poll above? We only have 1 vote there and that was before your reply.

Also, every BFV player on our server has a forum account, yet we have 9 votes. The other day we had 26 people playing on the server simultaneously.

You guys have the opportunity to shape the road we take, and it will be the one you'll be using when you play in future. I suggest you take it.

 

[mRoRange]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

I voted to prohibit it !

Sorry , coming in late on this...

It is simply not fair for a game like this to have grown adults insulting people over which weapon and vehicle used.

The game had the full Vietnam exp in mind from its developers. That is clearly the title and how its advertised.
Secondly, I have never seen a war sim played out when you can only use weapon a or b or your a puss.

Does anyone want to go fight ISIS with only a car-15 , while they blow you up with an RPG ?

War is war and you use the weapons your dealt and offered period. Now if the guys that get off insulting can get a game together thats only riffles ,thats fine and more power to you. But dont act like an idiot and turn this into its back in the quake, unreal, or whatever game your bundling this game with. This game is a quasi sim / arcade style game and thats why its fun.

The funny thing is, I use a riffle 99.9% of the time and i still see the snibblers whining over riffle kills.

Its never going to stop, the snibblers are who they are and they will never change. If you went SSM style and modded out the weapons they cry about, that would only cut 10% of snibblers out. Why, because they would soon figure out its not the arrow its the Indian !

One more time, " Its the Indian and not the arrow " hammer00

Quite a few of you will spend a lifetime learning this, insulting people and missing out on a good time.

Please dont take offense, but Ive waited for along time for this to be brought up, just my opinion.

And thanks for the keeping the server up and babysitted Hello and CO. ! thumbsup0

 

[mRoRange]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

And option 2 is fine also !

Because certain people get out of hand with it and truly take away the game spirit.

Know body wants to hear weapon whining all game / multiple games in a row.

That is ridiculous and uncivilized.

Giving some power to the admins to make it stop after the person made his point, then we can move and stop.

 

[Blueheeler]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

Hi Guys, I vote for a complete ban on continuous name calling, be it cheater, hacker or noob tuber, fag faggot nigger or giving away a team members position and also the TS ing that goes on if a player thinks he has been killed by a cheat, they TS to find that player and doing so makes other players TS when they die.
50% FF would be good, not to rough on players but it will halt a lot of foot shooting, and maybe "Team talk" only?.
I want this game to survive as we all know it's still so bloody good and I'm too old to learn a new one .

 

[TonyB]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

We have lost players because of the aggressive/insult-laden atmosphere of the game. You may recall that I posted some time ago about a certain player posting in-game bs about receiving private messages on these forums. They did it to me a long time ago. The player he was bugging has quit playing. I know because I know the player that quit.

Obviously the problem is policing the server. Christian Able has been banned how many times? He was raping main the other day, not last flag, with an admin on. The admin has to warn him? Seriously?

When you guys decide you have had enough of the thugs running off players, and I'm not sure when that will be, perhaps things will change. If it were me, I would adopt this change of rules and give admins the power to kill/boot/ban thugs without warning. Piss on warning Abel. He knows the rules and everybody else does as well and we all know it. Admins fear having to answer to the powers that be in these forums and that is nonsense. I have yet to see an admin abuse their powers but instead act like they are afraid to take action against the thugs that ruin the game. My recommendation is that you stop micro-managing the admins and let them do their job. I like all of them and have found them to be very patient.

 

[SucceededKiller]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

We have lost players because of the aggressive/insult-laden atmosphere of the game. You may recall that I posted some time ago about a certain player posting in-game bs about receiving private messages on these forums. They did it to me a long time ago. The player he was bugging has quit playing. I know because I know the player that quit.

The atmosphere is not that bad, and a majority of the insults occur between people who are both equally responsible. Since the password, there has been even less insulting as certain players can't get in. We also have very few reports here on the forum regarding insulting, so it can't be that bad.

Obviously the problem is policing the server. Christian Able has been banned how many times? He was raping main the other day, not last flag, with an admin on. The admin has to warn him? Seriously?

Abel's problem was always his language, and he did get a permanent ban for that. He still played, despite that ban, and kept getting banned...but in the end we decided to unban him because he was not causing nearly the problem he used to. Yes, the admin warns him. Well, warns and kills him. The warning lets them know what they are doing wrong and the kill puts an end to the rape. Abel has only had 4 warnings since mid November, and his last kick/ban was on the 23rd of August. Abel is far from a huge problem on the server.

When you guys decide you have had enough of the thugs running off players, and I'm not sure when that will be, perhaps things will change. If it were me, I would adopt this change of rules and give admins the power to kill/boot/ban thugs without warning. Piss on warning Abel. He knows the rules and everybody else does as well and we all know it. Admins fear having to answer to the powers that be in these forums and that is nonsense. I have yet to see an admin abuse their powers but instead act like they are afraid to take action against the thugs that ruin the game. My recommendation is that you stop micro-managing the admins and let them do their job. I like all of them and have found them to be very patient.

I'm not sure which players have been run off, as a majority of them are still here. We have 165 people with access to the password. 10 through email, quite a few through PM and even more on the server password topic.

The reason we give warnings is so everyone is treated the same, regardless of who they are. Kicking people with no warning doesn't let them know what they did wrong and doesn't give them a chance to stop and continue playing. To suggest banning them without warning is even worse; do you think anyone would want to return if they just get banned?

By having a system in place for dealing with rulebreaking, ensuring we are all on the same page with rules etc., we ensure every player is treated the same, regardless of the admin. If you mainrape, you get warned/killed, kicked then banned. If you insult you get warned, then kicked then banned. It's simple, it's fair and it works.
If an admin feels they can't do their job they are more than welcome to speak up about it, but I've not heard from a single admin that feels this way.

What happens when we get new players? Would you like us to instantly ban them because they should know the rules? Would you like us to treat players differently based on how long they've played here?

The only rule that's probably not black and white is the "excessive insulting" one. But then, admins can use their own discretion to decide when to act, which for the most part happens when the insulting carries on for a long period of time, is directed towards the person playing, rather than the player themselves or when the player asks that it stops and we agree that it has gone too far.

 

[TonyB]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

SK, tell me why an admin needs to warn regulars when they are violating rules? What, they don't know the rules? Fairness? What's fair is letting players play and enjoy the game without being hammered by thugs violating rules until they get two or three warnings. So Able hammers away at main rape while one of his chopper passengers bails and steals air - how do you fix that with your warnings?

I didn't say to ban them. Tell admins - if you see a player who you know is a regular and they are breaking the rules (main rape, let's face it), admin kill them. Posting a message "Please don't ...." - that's bunk - admin kill them. Stop with the warnings - just admin kill them. If they do it again, BAM. Ban for a day. And if their teammate steals while Able is raping, admin kill that player as well. When these guys are actually held accountable, then perhaps they will stop their behavior.

I think the admins are afraid of you or whomever has the power to revoke their admin privileges. They are afraid that the thug will come here to complain about the way he was treated then an investigation begins into why mean, old admin did what he did. Result, apology to Able ... admin warned.

If a bunch of players come to the forums to complain about one admin, and I am talking about players who have a lick of respect around here, then you can chat with your admin. Otherwise, leave them alone. Let them do the job they were given. Stop micro managing the things they do. I have to rank Orange and Furry up there as two of your top-notch players. If they tell you an admin is abusing their powers, then manage them. Otherwise, hands off - let them do their job. Thank you.

 

[SucceededKiller]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

SK, tell me why an admin needs to warn regulars when they are violating rules? What, they don't know the rules? Fairness? What's fair is letting players play and enjoy the game without being hammered by thugs violating rules until they get two or three warnings. So Able hammers away at main rape while one of his chopper passengers bails and steals air - how do you fix that with your warnings?

1 warning, which at the same time gets them killed if we are referring to main rape.
If a player is kicked twice in 3 days, they get a 24 hour ban, and from there it only gets worse for them if they keep it up.

The thing is, the rulebreaking doesn't happen that often. Below I've included every kick/ban for December:

"GRIZZLY ADAMS",banned words in chat messages
"Mr. Big",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"$tay$Ma$hiN",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"Player_0",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"soldier",Ban as result of report
"Hetjan",,Kick for AFK/Not playing
"=KGC= 64x",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"Banana-Joe",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"Krazy Kiwi",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"Ddos attack",Kick for using inappropriate language
"Ddos attack",Ban for using inappropriate language
"Player",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"mR oRanGe",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"x4|Al Gore",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"Mr. Big",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"[WaPRA] Sgt.Fear",Kick for main raping
"Cancerous Lepur",Kick for having an inappropriate name
"i",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"Mr. Big",Kick for AFK/Not playing
"whispering eye",Kick for disrupting gameplay
"Mupy_mup",Kick for AFK/Not playing

In 12 days, we've had 21 kicks/bans:
14 for AFK
2 for inappropriate language
1 for an inappropriate name
1 for main raping
1 for disrupting gameplay
1 as a result of him getting reported
1 by the server for saying a banned word.

12 days and approximately 489 rounds, but only 21 kicks/bans(7 non-afk) and 32 warnings is not that bad, at least in my opinion.

I didn't say to ban them. Tell admins - if you see a player who you know is a regular and they are breaking the rules (main rape, let's face it), admin kill them. Posting a message "Please don't ...." - that's bunk - admin kill them. Stop with the warnings - just admin kill them. If they do it again, BAM. Ban for a day. And if their teammate steals while Able is raping, admin kill that player as well. When these guys are actually held accountable, then perhaps they will stop their behavior.

This should be happening for everyone, regular or not, already. If they are mainraping, they get warned and admin killed simultaneously. They keep it up, we kick them. I'd also have no issue changing the kick to a ban for the remainder of the round; they want to rape then they don't get to play the map, simple.

The issue of killing players who steal stuff is proving that it was only because of the rape. What if the player was already there? What if the rape started and they were already flying off? What happens if main is stolen because of rape? We can't keep killing players until the flag is re-captured. If they bail from the heli that's raping, then proceed to steal aircraft, sure; they're clearly taking advantage of the situation there.

I think the admins are afraid of you or whomever has the power to revoke their admin privileges. They are afraid that the thug will come here to complain about the way he was treated then an investigation begins into why mean, old admin did what he did. Result, apology to Able ... admin warned.

I...find this hard to believe. I've been running this for almost 3 years now and removed 1 admin (for non-inactivity reasons), and that was only after discussing it with the other admins. Admins can make mistakes just like players, and unless they did it with malicious intent, break the rules regularly or are giving admins a bad name, I have no intentions of removing them and I'm the only one who can. I'm grateful for all the admins we have that are willing to spend their time helping improve the server.

If a bunch of players come to the forums to complain about one admin, and I am talking about players who have a lick of respect around here, then you can chat with your admin. Otherwise, leave them alone. Let them do the job they were given. Stop micro managing the things they do. I have to rank Orange and Furry up there as two of your top-notch players. If they tell you an admin is abusing their powers, then manage them. Otherwise, hands off - let them do their job. Thank you.

I can't remember the last time I've warned an admin about their actions. Cleared up miscommunications? Clarified rules? Sure. But warning them that what they did was wrong? Threatening that they could lose their admin? Not at all. However, any player with evidence of an admin abusing their power should suffice, not just a select few "top-notch players".

 

[RoBoDuCk]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

Pinky Said
I think the admins are afraid of you or whomever has the power to revoke their admin privileges. They are afraid that the thug will come here to complain about the way he was treated then an investigation begins into why mean, old admin did what he did. Result, apology to Able ... admin warned.

If a bunch of players come to the forums to complain about one admin, and I am talking about players who have a lick of respect around here, then you can chat with your admin. Otherwise, leave them alone. Let them do the job they were given. Stop micro managing the things they do. I have to rank Orange and Furry up there as two of your top-notch players. If they tell you an admin is abusing their powers, then manage them. Otherwise, hands off - let them do their job. Thank you.

I don't think its about fear, in my case I just want to do a good job, make sure no one gets unfairly punished and do the server rules justice. The way I see it, as an admin it doesn't matter if I like the particular rule or not, or if I like or dislike the player in question. Still gotta follow the guidelines. I can't perma ban Nagi like you want me to for instance, unless SK approved it or changed the rules. It's not fear, its respect to the responsibility to keep things fair.

 

[Alien8]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

Bluehee(r?)ler, by Noob Tubers are you referring to LAW/RPG usage against infantry? If so like someone else said above this is part of the game and I don't agree with having unspoken rules which creates a "toxic" atmosphere. I have never posted here before but thanks to all you guys for keeping BFV going, I hadn't played in years and was glad to find this final server a few months back.

 

[TonyB]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

i vote in favor of letting admins handle thugism at their discretion. Turn 'em loose. Let them police the server.

ABEL is a problem. He knows the rules. We all do. Why does he get a pass? Does he own HELLO?

 

[SucceededKiller]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

Hey,

Thanks for all the votes everyone.

This weekend I'll make sure the rules are clear to everyone on the server regarding this and the week following we'll start enforcing it.

Hopefully this will put an end to the baseless accusations from players and the driving off of those they accuse, as well as making the server more welcoming to newer players who wont fully have grasped the ropes or are trying out some of the weapons available to them.

Regards,
SucceededKiller

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

:O

 

[Alien8]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

Hi Snakedoctor, your last paragraph above is exactly what Blueheeler did so am confused by your post. Sorry to see you go.

 

[Vmax]

Re: Rule changes regarding hacking accusations and weapon ty

I saw what was happening to you today Snake but couldn't do anything about it because we don't have a rule yet. Just hang around for the rule change and it can be stopped.

regards
Vmax/Rob