Mainrape discussion.

[GI 4Ever]

Maybe we need a new rule! No raping when there is ____ number of players or less!

There are rules like this on BF2 servers. What do you think?

 

[TonyB]

Maybe we need a new rule! No raping when there is ____ number of players or less!

There are rules like this on BF2 servers. What do you think?

I agree but the problem is, players will ignore the rules. If there are no admins on, nothing will come of it. If admins are on, they need to see it. It simply can't be stopped and I would rather the admins focus on idiots who blow up and damage our own air and vehicles if they don't get to them first.

If the rule is that main raping is allowed, and it is, Del should not have killed the guy. We just have to suck it up and either leave the server, which I have done; shoot down the rapist or simply don't spawn.

I was playing yesterday - running to a plane and some asshole player behind me started shooting the plane with an AK-47. It blew apart just as I got to it. Fortunately, Del was running toward the same player and caught him in the act. When it spawned again, the offender got it. Del killed him and gave him a warning. I appreciated it very much because it is so frustrating. The player then ended up calling me names because I called him out on his conduct.

Again, I think Del does a fine job and I support him. If he made a mistake here then he made a mistake. We all do from time to time so I say cut him some slack. I've not seen him abuse anybody.

 

[CommandoBeta]

There is of course a simple solution to all of this. I've seen several servers which have a 'main bubble' - an area around the main base that, when entered by an enemy, causes slow damage, eventually leading to death. Depending on the size of the bubble, it can eliminate most to all main-rape. Unless anyone believes that mainrape at the level of Battlefield Vietnam was intended by DICE or has a positive effect on gameplay, I'd say that getting rid of mainrape alltogether without needing admins present 24/7 to enforce it is a great addition to gameplay.

 

[FBC]

There is of course a simple solution to all of this. I've seen several servers which have a 'main bubble' - an area around the main base that, when entered by an enemy, causes slow damage, eventually leading to death. Depending on the size of the bubble, it can eliminate most to all main-rape. Unless anyone believes that mainrape at the level of Battlefield Vietnam was intended by DICE or has a positive effect on gameplay, I'd say that getting rid of mainrape alltogether without needing admins present 24/7 to enforce it is a great addition to gameplay.

It not really intended by DICE, i rarely seen any main-rape in BF1942 franchise so... yea... I suggest making the map a bit more bigger and add a bit more stuff that DICE really should done. Once my friends get the hand on other games it would be a good bye for me to this game.

 

[BlackHawk0012]

There is of course a simple solution to all of this. I've seen several servers which have a 'main bubble' - an area around the main base that, when entered by an enemy, causes slow damage, eventually leading to death. Depending on the size of the bubble, it can eliminate most to all main-rape. Unless anyone believes that mainrape at the level of Battlefield Vietnam was intended by DICE or has a positive effect on gameplay, I'd say that getting rid of mainrape alltogether without needing admins present 24/7 to enforce it is a great addition to gameplay.

It not really intended by DICE, i rarely seen any main-rape in BF1942 franchise so... yea... I suggest making the map a bit more bigger and add a bit more stuff that DICE really should done. Once my friends get the hand on other games it would be a good bye for me to this game.

I suggest making the map a bit more bigger

Unless Everyone Download a map pack made by someone and we use them ,is a no-go.

add a bit more stuff that DICE really should done

Make a Mod? We dont have many players that would download it

In my position, i can say that rape only happens when the raped team is bad. In game start, in game warden for instance, you must kill the spawn heli and then the mi8, as USA.
And as NVA, you must try to take USA main and then kill tango.

Its all about strategy.

 

[Max]

There is of course a simple solution to all of this. I've seen several servers which have a 'main bubble' - an area around the main base that, when entered by an enemy, causes slow damage, eventually leading to death. Depending on the size of the bubble, it can eliminate most to all main-rape. Unless anyone believes that mainrape at the level of Battlefield Vietnam was intended by DICE or has a positive effect on gameplay, I'd say that getting rid of mainrape alltogether without needing admins present 24/7 to enforce it is a great addition to gameplay.

It not really intended by DICE, i rarely seen any main-rape in BF1942 franchise so... yea... I suggest making the map a bit more bigger and add a bit more stuff that DICE really should done. Once my friends get the hand on other games it would be a good bye for me to this game.

I suggest making the map a bit more bigger

Unless Everyone Download a map pack made by someone and we use them ,is a no-go.

add a bit more stuff that DICE really should done

Make a Mod? We dont have many players that would download it

In my position, i can say that rape only happens when the raped team is bad. In game start, in game warden for instance, you must kill the spawn heli and then the mi8, as USA.
And as NVA, you must try to take USA main and then kill tango.

Its all about strategy.

Exactly.

 

[CommandoBeta]

The assumption that main-rape is the fault of the victims and is therefore desirable and should not be remedied is incorrect. It seems very obvious that being killed repeatedly with virtually no chance to go out and get a flag is not at all what players want when they play this game, and is actually one of the biggest flaws of BFV. People who claim this is not true are ignoring the fact that raped players often simply leave the server.

What some people seem to be getting at here is that the situation is simple; someone doesn't protect their main, or does insufficient teamwork and is therefore mainraped. Reality is somewhat more complicated. What we have here is a classical example of Game Theory. Ultimately, the dominant strategy is to not care about the main at all and do what is essentially the goal of this game - to go for flags, fight enemies, and have fun.

To blame this on the team is to ignore the fact that a team is made up of seperate individuals who have absolutely nothing in common but the fact that they were randomly placed in the same team. Teams have no leaders or hierarchy like in Battlefield 2, and players don't choose who they will be in a team with. It is therefore wrong to blame one player for the lack of teamwork of another player. Because that's what one is doing when saying 'it's the fault of the team that they are getting raped'.

Having established that being part of a bad team is nothing a player can be blamed for, and is something that a player can hardly do something about, we have to stop blaming a player for their bad team. Tolerating mainrape is ultimately doing exactly that. Now that we are seeing declining numbers of players, we can no longer afford to do this, especially now it's apparent that it's bad for our player numbers. What I am offering is a method to get rid of this problem once and for all that does not require extensive admin surveillance and works regardless of how many people are in the server. Admittedly this does not solve the problem of rape in general, but at least players will have a safe haven to spawn and a chance to get their air vehicles up. This in turn means more balanced gameplay, and more fun - which is what I think we all join the server to have.

 

[BlackHawk0012]

The assumption that main-rape is the fault of the victims and is therefore desirable and should not be remedied is incorrect. It seems very obvious that being killed repeatedly with virtually no chance to go out and get a flag is not at all what players want when they play this game, and is actually one of the biggest flaws of BFV. People who claim this is not true are ignoring the fact that raped players often simply leave the server.

What some people seem to be getting at here is that the situation is simple; someone doesn't protect their main, or does insufficient teamwork and is therefore mainraped. Reality is somewhat more complicated. What we have here is a classical prisoner-dillema. Ultimately, the dominant strategy is to not care about the main at all and do what is essentially the goal of this game - to go for flags, fight enemies, and have fun.

To blame this on the team is to ignore the fact that a team is made up of seperate individuals who have absolutely nothing in common but the fact that they were randomly placed in the same team. Teams have no leaders or hierarchy like in Battlefield 2, and players don't choose who they will be in a team with. It is therefore wrong to blame one player for the lack of teamwork of another player. Because that's what one is doing when saying 'it's the fault of the team that they are getting raped'.

Having established that being part of a bad team is nothing a player can be blamed for, and is something that a player can hardly do something about, we have to stop blaming a player for their bad team. Tolerating mainrape is ultimately doing exactly that. Now that we are seeing declining numbers of players, we can no longer afford to do this, especially now it's apparent that it's bad for our player numbers. What I am offering is a method to get rid of this problem once and for all that does not require extensive admin surveillance and works regardless of how many people are in the server. Admittedly this does not solve the problem of rape in general, but at least players will have a safe haven to spawn and a chance to get their air vehicles up. This in turn means more balanced gameplay, and more fun - which is what I think we all join the server to have.

Battlefield 2 - Kubra Dam
Main Flag of MEC is capturable, if you capture it, the chance of winning is very big.

I know that it sucks when you are getting raped, but the fact is, that too many ppl keep spawning in heli when they should actually be fighting.
But its a good idea... Though its fun to get a huey slick and go for the main and capture it.

 

[Max]

The assumption that main-rape is the fault of the victims and is therefore desirable and should not be remedied is incorrect. It seems very obvious that being killed repeatedly with virtually no chance to go out and get a flag is not at all what players want when they play this game, and is actually one of the biggest flaws of BFV. People who claim this is not true are ignoring the fact that raped players often simply leave the server.

What some people seem to be getting at here is that the situation is simple; someone doesn't protect their main, or does insufficient teamwork and is therefore mainraped. Reality is somewhat more complicated. What we have here is a classical prisoner-dillema. Ultimately, the dominant strategy is to not care about the main at all and do what is essentially the goal of this game - to go for flags, fight enemies, and have fun.

To blame this on the team is to ignore the fact that a team is made up of seperate individuals who have absolutely nothing in common but the fact that they were randomly placed in the same team. Teams have no leaders or hierarchy like in Battlefield 2, and players don't choose who they will be in a team with. It is therefore wrong to blame one player for the lack of teamwork of another player. Because that's what one is doing when saying 'it's the fault of the team that they are getting raped'.

Having established that being part of a bad team is nothing a player can be blamed for, and is something that a player can hardly do something about, we have to stop blaming a player for their bad team. Tolerating mainrape is ultimately doing exactly that. Now that we are seeing declining numbers of players, we can no longer afford to do this, especially now it's apparent that it's bad for our player numbers. What I am offering is a method to get rid of this problem once and for all that does not require extensive admin surveillance and works regardless of how many people are in the server. Admittedly this does not solve the problem of rape in general, but at least players will have a safe haven to spawn and a chance to get their air vehicles up. This in turn means more balanced gameplay, and more fun - which is what I think we all join the server to have.

I dissagree.

Ofcourse people leave the server if things don't go the way they want. However I think you have an exaggerated idea of how many players actually leave due to mainrape. But first things first, people dont only leave due to mains being raped. Things like Noobtubers or simply games, where one team is dominating the other (the map doesn't even matter), are also the cause of people leaving the server. But let's take Hastings for example. 9/10 times when Hastings is on, almost no one leaves the game. It is one of the most popular maps, and even when either team is being raped, players still stay in the server. Ofcourse you have the occasional ragequiters who get fed up, but like I said, that happends on every map.

The whole idea behind battlefield is playing as a team. If you go around and say that individuals are not to blame for their teammates, and the other way around, then you are fully ignoring that players should actually work together as a team. It's the whole essence of the game. And it takes only 1-2 guys to sit in the P.B.R./m60 or what not, to shoot down 1 or 2 mi-8s. Done it a thousand times, it's far from impossible. The other way around, have 1-2 people on the NVA with either a SA-7 and/or B.T.R. is enough to take down a huey. Now I can imagine that when you are playing in a 5v5 on such a map, and 2 players leave due to rape, things get hard. But then again, since you play with such few players, you actually CAN blame them individually.

This game is balanced, it just takes some strategy to not get raped.

 

[ArcticWinter]

Wouldn't players just adjust and fly in a larger circle around the main base in order to avoid the bubble that causes their vehicle to slowly lose health?

 

[Kn3wn]

Base rape = happy dtk.

There are many flaws, but taking a main has always been a great party of having the victory, and if you expand the main bubble even farther to avoide what Arctic said, you will have a major portion of the map mission. Like blackhawk was saying, its all about the strategy, I say its best left as it is.

 

[CommandoBeta]

Now let's set the record straight. Battlefield Vietnam isn't a balanced game and never has been. In a balanced game, there's a chance of rougly 50% that a random team wins in a random map. We all know that's not true in Battlefield Vietnam.

If people here actually believe that I or any other player deserves to be punished for being assigned to a team with players that don't like to do teamwork, then that's their own opinion that they are entitled to. But let's consider the consequences of that for a moment. An argument that is used by rape apologetics is that some people with M60's or a P.B.R in the main (for some reason referred to as teamwork) can prevent rape. The truth that speaks from the fact that mainrape often occurs though is that it either doesn't work, or people don't like sitting at the main with M60's waiting for a helicopter to show up. After all, if that's what many people liked doing, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. And the point that this discussion began with - that when few people are on the server, rape is even worse - applies here as well. If the server has 14 people in it, then it's 7 vs 7. Especially in these situations, with few people, the odds that two people of that team are willing to just sit at the main are very slim.

The argument that by making mainrape harder you ruin teamplay is fallacious. If rape is seen as the punishment for bad teamwork, mainrape isn't the only possible variation. Other flags can be raped just as well. The only thing that changes is that the defending team actually has a chance to get a vehicle in air, and have a chance to get out there and take other flags.

For the people who don't even like that , I can even think of a 'light solution' - get a mainbubble that kills slowly, so that a raper can go in there for 30 seconds, rack up some cheap score, and get out of there again.

 

[Max]

Now let's set the record straight. Battlefield Vietnam isn't a balanced game and never has been. In a balanced game, there's a chance of rougly 50% that a random team wins in a random map. We all know that's not true in Battlefield Vietnam.

That would mean almost no game out there is balanced. There will always be teams who have better players on their side then the opponents. The game is decently balanced if you look at the map layout and equipment both teams get to fight with. But let's not start Nitpicking about this.

If people here actually believe that I or any other player deserves to be punished for being assigned to a team with players that don't like to do teamwork, then that's their own opinion that they are entitled to. But let's consider the consequences of that for a moment. An argument that is used by rape apologetics is that some people with M60's or a P.B.R in the main (for some reason referred to as teamwork) can prevent rape. The truth that speaks from the fact that mainrape often occurs though is that it either doesn't work, or people don't like sitting at the main with M60's waiting for a helicopter to show up. After all, if that's what many people liked doing, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. And the point that this discussion began with - that when few people are on the server, rape is even worse - applies here as well. If the server has 14 people in it, then it's 7 vs 7. Especially in these situations, with few people, the odds that two people of that team are willing to just sit at the main are very slim.

How is defending a main with PBR/M60 not teamwork? You are helping your team by taking down or damaging enemy aircraft. Should we all just run for flags and leave them undefended the whole time? This doesn't really make sence to me.
There are always more and less popular ways to defend mains. But mainraping is just a simple consequence of a team NOT defending it's main. The same as a team losing a game when they are NOT defending their flags. And like I said, when you play with few people against others, you can blame people individually for getting mainraped.

The argument that by making mainrape harder you ruin teamplay is fallacious.

This isn't stated anywhere. But now that you mention it, I do believe that adding a bubble takes away a part of the teamplay, as people wouldn't have to defend their main for (and with) their teammates. But this isn't my biggest concern.

I rather see as little modding done to the bfv server as possible. And if we were going to mod the server anyway, than I rather have it that we add 1 extra turret to both mains.

It would be nice if more people shared their view on this so we won't just have 2 people refuting eachother

 

[SucceededKiller]

Personally, I don't see mainrape as that big an issue. It's not often it happens when you see how many maps the server goes through in a day; and the maps it does happen on (Hastings, game warden) are maps everyone should expect it on as it has been the same for...years?

Also, it is almost always the US side that gets main raped which is somewhat confusing. They have PBR's with a dual .50 cal front gun and another single one on the rear. They then have a quad .50 cal near the bunker and an m113 with its own gun and the ability to re-arm the quad or pbr's. You could also argue that the Huey, when occupied by a competent pilot and co-pilot, is better than the mi-8. That is much more than the NVA have, with only sampans, a tank and a BTR, yet you very rarely hear of NVA main rape...

Back to the actual topic though, I feel it would be difficult to enforce a no mainrape or last flag only policy when no admins are on; it would also have to be map specific - unless you expect the NVA to roll out the red carpet for US troops on reclaiming Hue?

A "death bubble" would really only stop players stealing vehicles and capturing the main flag - which I see as a legitimate tactic. It would allow players to leave their main completely abandoned and not even have to worry about it being taken from them as a result.

I have, however, started to see quite a few players playing with a "last flag" policy of their own. Sometimes they even tell other players "it's not the last flag" and that player decides to stop. I think this is a much better solution, even if it is not official. If players start to lead by example, and decide on their own not to mainrape until all other flags are gone, it may have the desired effect of eliminating it with none of the hassle.

 

[«ßÔß»-Jaws-[CL]]

Isnt the mainrape-problem due to the fact its usually the same group of player that are doing this...

1 of the reasons i almost never fly is that all, read to many, are running around the pads and waiting 2 hog the chopper... I usually thing of it as a upeocopter, no hints there nooooo (there are many more)
its 1 of the reasons i take the chopper on hastings mostly to annoy people, i usually have a good startspawn and 2 weeks ago i was named a mainraper, first time ever*, by some people that usually are first in line to take the chopper :evil:

If more people were "allowed" to improve their skills in air it would probably be a nicer game for all.
More rules would only complicate things and worse mean lots of tedious work 4 admins... been there so thank you but no...admins should also be allowed to play and have fun.

Cu all, over n out from Papeete, tahiti/Jaws

* I stink in air but i love strafing crowded pads :love:

 

[mRoRange]

There is one solution that I thought of that would work easily if it could be done.

When the map switches to an air-map like Hastings or Warden there is always the threat of main raping. But in many cases I see its that the team that is sluggishly getting back to the new map is the one that will get air raped from to many afk's at the time on its team.

All that is needed in many cases, is a timer of 2 min or 3 min before letting enemy accessing the main. This gives the afk's time to get back to the game without the game almost being decided by that time. If that team looses they're main after that initial timer, its on them for not protecting it and maintaining it.

This solves many issues but not all and at least allows a fair game a chance to develop. I think that's all anyone wants at the end of the day is a chance of a fair game.

Can the bubble be added to mains for say for 2 mins only and then disappear after the timer is up ?
Seems like a small compromise for both sides. You still get to main rape but not the first 2 mins of the game or whatever the magic number is that works ?

Any feedback ?

 

[«ßÔß»-Jaws-[CL]]

In cases when we have MI8 with respawn some extra quad-50' would even the odds
Its too easy to rush w MI8spawn in game warden and the other map w xmbomber

could there be a 2 min max time before mi8respawn get damage within "bubble"?

An another annoying map is reclaming hue w all mortaring...so boring
Here we can move the ammo boxes in the house and temple so the they are out of reach of reloading

 

[CommandoBeta]

To place more means to defend the main against airborne attacks is to deny the problem that lies at the base of this. Like others have pointed out here, the problem is that people do not want to spend their time sitting in a main, waiting for someone who intends to rape it. Like I said, the existance of this problem is proven by the fact that we are having this very discussion. Adding more machine guns is not going to fix this.

I feel like I've spent enough time pointing out the advantages, but I don't see anyone pointing out what the disadvantage of a main bubble is. The only one that I could think of is that the people who do actually enjoy sitting around at a main waiting for a helicopter to show up, would lose their job because of the main bubble. However, if there aren't enough people that want to defend the main all the time, then removing the necessity of that task doesn't seem like such a bad thing.

I would also like to point out the technical possibilities of the main bubble. SK argued that the bubble would not only stop rape, but would also stop some tactical elements - like stealing vehicles and taking the flag. It is however possible, like many BF1942 servers do, to only make the bubble affect vehicles. This makes it possible to steal the vehicles, and take off and leave the bubble with them as soon as possible. Even taking the flag is technically still possible, albeit much harder without some air vehicles circling the base and shooting anyone who dares spawn. Finally, I'd like to revisit a point that I made earlier. If we do it this way, and make it possible for infantry to still enter the main bubble, then the people who enjoy defending the main can still keep doing that.

Admittedly I don't have the SSM knowledge required to make this bubble, but we have some people in HELLO who are extremely good at it, and I'm pretty sure I saw a 'how to' about this on the BF Modding Community.

 

[toxic2]

That was a lot to read. I think if you eliminate main rape until last flag is a much better solution. I don't see why there cant be a happy medium here. If one team caps all flags, they should have the right to head to the enemy main. If they have not, and they come to main and Rape and rape some more there shouldn't be any reason for the admin not to slay the so named rapist. Agreeing with Ron earlier when he said 'If anything, Main rape makes people Leave the server'... how true, cannot count the amount of times or peoples ive seen leave for that very reason. just saying... anyways, that's my opinion.

 

[FBC]

Re: Re:Mainrape discussion.

There is of course a simple solution to all of this. I've seen several servers which have a 'main bubble' - an area around the main base that, when entered by an enemy, causes slow damage, eventually leading to death. Depending on the size of the bubble, it can eliminate most to all main-rape. Unless anyone believes that mainrape at the level of Battlefield Vietnam was intended by DICE or has a positive effect on gameplay, I'd say that getting rid of mainrape alltogether without needing admins present 24/7 to enforce it is a great addition to gameplay.

It not really intended by DICE, i rarely seen any main-rape in BF1942 franchise so... yea... I suggest making the map a bit more bigger and add a bit more stuff that DICE really should done. Once my friends get the hand on other games it would be a good bye for me to this game.

I suggest making the map a bit more bigger

Unless Everyone Download a map pack made by someone and we use them ,is a no-go.

add a bit more stuff that DICE really should done

Make a Mod? We dont have many players that would download it

In my position, i can say that rape only happens when the raped team is bad. In game start, in game warden for instance, you must kill the spawn heli and then the mi8, as USA.
And as NVA, you must try to take USA main and then kill tango.

Its all about strategy.

I'm talking about what KGC server have done, on KGC you can see that the server expanded the Hasting map and they added few stuff.... Adding vehicles and objects are easy to do and everyone don't need to download them and same thing goes with the server map expanding mod thing... More cargo ship Huey and more other stuff... don't remove any original objects otherwise it would have to make people to download it.... That pretty much what i know... Ask WillMineForFoods he know how to do mods, or Tank Boy and stuff, ask them or just play the same thing lamely over and over.

Go to KGC and see it for your self on Hasting, I'm done on this forum for the day, bye. :tired: random0