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Questions about 1.0 Vs 1.21

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Installed and gave it a quick look, wow! I was wearing Rose-tinted Aviators, my memories of DC looked a lot more polished in-my-head lol
The memories had probably merged with one of the many BF2 mods I played later 🤨
...and apparently my hard earned skillsets in helicopters are not like "riding-a-bike" ...who knew? lol

Same. I re-installed 1942 and DC when I started playing BFV about a year ago. Personally speaking, I dislike DC now with a passion. Super clunky and indicative of the 1942 limitations. Now I say this as someone who would play DC every weekend back in 2009-2010 between BFV. I remembered it as an amazing mod and as you said, well-polished...but now, its almost unplayable for me.
 

HueyBob

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The game-changer for me flying the 1942 heli's (and later bf versions) was rebinding the flight controls: I have pitch and rudder assigned to mouse, roll and power assigned to keys.... makes it feel more similar to standard (infantry) FPS controls.
 

Phallic

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That's right. I think Rocket-Jumping (and later rocket-riding) was discovered in og Quake (maybe Painkeep mod) first time I ever saw it applied to grenades was in Halflife TFC but only with Concussion nades. BFV actually did it better, jumps were higher, longer, did less damage, plus you could use any slope (eg stairs, hills etc) to launch yourself in a curved arc, super handy for breaking last flag/siege situations. Surrounded and getting spawnraped? No problem just superhero leap over the enemy, or parkour over rooftops to next flag hehe. Good times.
*edit* Forgot to mention the Huge benefit of BFV having a Parachute (on most maps) to assist landings lol

Vanilla Half-Life also had nade boosts, but instead of dropping them at your feet you would cook them. It's still very commonly used by speedrunners in certain parts of the game.


View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=37ioztdaGy8


I am intrigued by what you're saying about the possibilities with the M79 and you never having tried it. One would think it should still be possible to find a 1.0 copy floating about somewhere so one could possibly do a deep dive into all of that which may have been missed back in the day.
 
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LTShaun

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Vanilla Half-Life also had nade boosts, but instead of dropping them at your feet you would cook them. It's still very commonly used by speedrunners in certain parts of the game.


View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=37ioztdaGy8


I am intrigued by what you're saying about the possibilities with the M79 and you never having tried it. One would think it should still be possible to find a 1.0 copy floating about somewhere so one could possibly do a deep dive into all of that which may have been missed back in the day.

I have a copy of 1.0 😅
 

HueyBob

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Since I had my Rose-tints on I remembered a couple of old BFV curiosities, things that were supposed to be part of the game That I've never seen used or met anyone who had....
The Tango Respawn Boat is designed to carry land vehicles in its lower deck, the front ramp is movable (no idea which keys control it) never seen this used.
And the static Artillery Guns were supposed to be able to be collapsed and towed to different places, also never witnessed.
 
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Since I had my Rose-tints on I remembered a couple of old BFV curiosities, things that were supposed to be part of the game That I've never seen used or met anyone who had....
The Tango Respawn Boat is designed to carry land vehicles in its lower deck, the front ramp is movable (no idea which keys control it) never seen this used.
And the static Artillery Guns were supposed to be able to be collapsed and towed to different places, also never witnessed.
In theory, yes, the Tango ATC is supposed to be able to carry vehicles, but it's not possible in-game. For one thing, the ramp can't actually be raised and lowered in the vanilla game. You can mod it to do that, as I have in Operation Remembrance, but even then, the collision physics (vehicle-to-vehicle interactions) are messed up and any vehicles you tried to drive in would glitch on the ramp and destroy themselves. Even if you mod a vehicle to spawn inside it, the way aircraft and landing craft spawn on ships in Bf1942, it will glitch and destroy itself when you try to drive it out. It's something I've been working on trying to fix.

I've never heard of the idea that the M46 artillery was supposed to be towable. If that was a game concept, it was cut very early in development. There's nothing in any component of the game, from the M46 model, to its code, or even how the game vehicles and physics function, that could conceivably allow that.
 

HueyBob

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In theory, yes, the Tango ATC is supposed to be able to carry vehicles, but it's not possible in-game. For one thing, the ramp can't actually be raised and lowered in the vanilla game. You can mod it to do that, as I have in Operation Remembrance, but even then, the collision physics (vehicle-to-vehicle interactions) are messed up and any vehicles you tried to drive in would glitch on the ramp and destroy themselves. Even if you mod a vehicle to spawn inside it, the way aircraft and landing craft spawn on ships in Bf1942, it will glitch and destroy itself when you try to drive it out. It's something I've been working on trying to fix.

I've never heard of the idea that the M46 artillery was supposed to be towable. If that was a game concept, it was cut very early in development. There's nothing in any component of the game, from the M46 model, to its code, or even how the game vehicles and physics function, that could conceivably allow that.
Strange about the M46 I could've sworn I'd read it in the 1.0 manual (I just checked, it isn't), hmm maybe it was in the promotional hype before release?
I don't think I'm confusing it for another game, unless, were there any Nam mods for bf1942?
I'm sure I wasn't the only one who tried and failed, reversing jeeps into them and pressing every key while manning them (same with the Tango).
I'm happy to take your word for it, if you are into the game code, Myth busted 😌
 
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Strange about the M46 I could've sworn I'd read it in the 1.0 manual (I just checked, it isn't), hmm maybe it was in the promotional hype before release?
I don't think I'm confusing it for another game, unless, were there any Nam mods for bf1942?
I'm sure I wasn't the only one who tried and failed, reversing jeeps into them and pressing every key while manning them (same with the Tango).
I'm happy to take your word for it, if you are into the game code, Myth busted 😌
It definitely could have been something in the pre-release promotional stuff, which might have come from original plans. It's easy to see how much the game changed from its first concepts to what we actually got when you look at this picture of what the first version of the Sheridan looked like very early in development:
Sheridan.png

You'd never guess it was the same game. Heck, the barbed wire looks more like what we got in the finished product than the Sheridan itself does.

The only other thing I can think of is that maybe you're mixing it up with is either the US helicopters' ability to airlift vehicles, including the M110 self-propelled artillery, or perhaps the mortars that the players can set down and pick up.

There was Eve of Destruction for Battlefield 1942, but despite the popularity, it's kind of a mess, and programming something like that would have been beyond the developer who made it. There's at least one WW2 mod for Bf1942, Forgotten Hope Secret Weapons, that has towable artillery, but no one's ever done that in a BfVietnam mod. It can be done, but as FHSW proved, on the Bf1942 and BfVietnam engine, it's really awkward and has janky physics - not to mention, if I understand the FHSW system, it doesn't involve actually hooking up to and towing an artillery emplacement. Towed artillery spawns hooked up to a vehicle, but it's not artillery you can use, it's a fake. "Unhooking" from the artillery actually removes the fake model and spawns a stationary artillery emplacement, and "hooking up" destroys that emplacement and creates a new fake attached to the vehicle. The end result is that each artillery emplacement is actually a different one, with full health and full ammunition.

I think it's likely the developers originally intended the gate on the Tango to be moveable, because even though it lacks the code to rotate, it IS a separate model component. If they had no intention of it being moveable, they probably would have made it part of the main hull model. It's possible that they couldn't figure out how to solve the physics issues, or they didn't have time because development was so rushed. The game had two entire singleplayer modes that were cut because they ran out of time, after all. And the physics of one vehicle carrying another in BfVietnam can be pretty weird. I just got finished developing a landing craft that can carry tanks, but it had a glitch that made vehicles fall through the deck and sink, so the solution was to add a full-sized aircraft carrier hull, make it invisible, and take away its collision physics, and that magically made the landing craft work correctly. I haven't tested it yet, but I think a similar solution could work for the Tango.
 

HueyBob

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Spoke to an old teammate about the artillery, he can't remember anything about trying to move them or it even being suggested, however he claims he witnessed another player opening and closing the Tango ramp (in 1.0) but they didn't try loading any vehicles onto it.
 
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Spoke to an old teammate about the artillery, he can't remember anything about trying to move them or it even being suggested, however he claims he witnessed another player opening and closing the Tango ramp (in 1.0) but they didn't try loading any vehicles onto it.
It's possible they patched it out, maybe because of the glitches, although it seems unlikely that they would have done that and not put it in the notes. LTShaun, if you still have a copy of 1.0 installed, could you give that a look? It would be your up/down arrows, or nothing.
 

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Once upon a time I wanted to do this using SSM, but after studying the gate code, I did not see anything that would turn it. Now I can spawn OH-6 loach on a tango without any problems, which is what we have implemented (I won’t say where because it’s forbidden here. yaayay). Also possible spawn anything in the dock. So I remembered that I came across a custom map with vehicles from BF1942, and there was a WW2 landingboat there. I applied the code from it to Tango, with a slight adjustment to the rotary axis. The code worked, the gate opens physically, but of course the client will not see this. I tried making a CSM(client-side modding) map with this tango, and it worked just fine. And since I specialize exclusively in SSM modding, this did not suit me. So I can assume that it didn’t work in 1.0 either.
 
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Once upon a time I wanted to do this using SSM, but after studying the gate code, I did not see anything that would turn it. Now I can spawn OH-6 loach on a tango without any problems, which is what we have implemented (I won’t say where because it’s forbidden here. yaayay). Also possible spawn anything in the dock. So I remembered that I came across a custom map with vehicles from BF1942, and there was a WW2 landingboat there. I applied the code from it to Tango, with a slight adjustment to the rotary axis. The code worked, the gate opens physically, but of course the client will not see this. I tried making a CSM(client-side modding) map with this tango, and it worked just fine. And since I specialize exclusively in SSM modding, this did not suit me. So I can assume that it didn’t work in 1.0 either.
None of what you just said has any connection to do with why it might or might not have worked in 1.0. And try adding a NetworkableInfo to your gate rotational object. That's what allows servers and clients to see the same thing when it comes to moving objects. Might work even as an SSM.
 

Drake

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None of what you just said has any connection to do with why it might or might not have worked in 1.0. And try adding a NetworkableInfo to your gate rotational object. That's what allows servers and clients to see the same thing when it comes to moving objects. Might work even as an SSM.
i doubt developers remove it after patch 1.2-1.21. I know gold rule for very very tight SSM for BFV - never touch Networkable info. i spend a lot of time before i understood it. As u know it is separated object(tango gate) and when i try CSM it on map - it works without any Networkable info.....
 
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That's what I was saying, that I highly doubt they removed it in any patches. I don't think it worked in any released version of the game. And if you can't touch the NetworkableInfo, there's no way to make it work on an SSM. Even with a CSM, you have to have that NetworkableInfo there. If you don't, the gate will work for you, but anyone else playing will still see it as being closed. There are some exceptions to this, where an object can use the NetworkableInfo of the parent object, in this case the TangoComplex, and doesn't need its own NetworkableInfo, but that's usually not the case with something like a rotating part. That's why it worked for you on SSM but other players would see it as still being closed.
 

Drake

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Thats right
The only thing is i look at now is NetworkableInfo of tango contain next code

Code:
NetworkableInfo.createNewInfo TangoWingInfo
NetworkableInfo.setPredictionMode PMLinear

And it not used anywhere of tango files. (So it maybe really was possible use it in 1.0 - but i doubt )
I found map that i talk about, where is WW2 boat with gate can be open. and this gate contain the same WingInfo is used in RotationalBundle object which is gate are is

Who know what exactly contain Tango code used in game with this TangoWingInfo
But Tangogate specified as Simpleobject, but not rotated. so if even we can add this info it still be "static" for client

It maybe possible to remove specification for Tango_gate as simple object. and then add new, but RotationalBundle tango_gate object. But anyway without Network info it will be closed.
 
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Thats right
The only thing is i look at now is NetworkableInfo of tango contain next code

Code:
NetworkableInfo.createNewInfo TangoWingInfo
NetworkableInfo.setPredictionMode PMLinear

And it not used anywhere of tango files. (So it maybe really was possible use it in 1.0 - but i doubt )
I found map that i talk about, where is WW2 boat with gate can be open. and this gate contain the same WingInfo is used in RotationalBundle object which is gate are is

Who know what exactly contain Tango code used in game with this TangoWingInfo
But Tangogate specified as Simpleobject, but not rotated. so if even we can add this info it still be "static" for client

It maybe possible to remove specification for Tango_gate as simple object. and then add new, but RotationalBundle tango_gate object. But anyway without Network info it will be closed.
When you see a Wing Info on a ship or boat, it's usually used for a rudder object, floater object, or a rotational object like a ramp, so it's possible, but it also could have been created for a rudder/floater and then not used.

This is my code for it:

ObjectTemplate.create RotationalBundle TangoBowRamp
ObjectTemplate.networkableInfo TangoRampInfo
ObjectTemplate.geometry TangoBowRampM1
ObjectTemplate.hasCollisionPhysics 1
ObjectTemplate.loadSoundScript ../Common/Sounds/LCMRamp.ssc
ObjectTemplate.MaxRotation 0/90/0
ObjectTemplate.MaxSpeed 0/45/0
ObjectTemplate.Acceleration 0/30/0
ObjectTemplate.InputToPitch c_PIPitch

But no, without a way to include the NetworkableInfo, it might as well be the original SimpleObject.
 

Jum_P

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Tango ramp not working at 1.0, but at a long distance it is not visible (reduced, like a grass), what could be confusing and let think that it really working. This only happens if you don't use alternative fire mod, with binocular or sights ramp drawes at any distance. The same as at 1.21.
 

Drake

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Tango ramp not working at 1.0, but at a long distance it is not visible (reduced, like a grass), what could be confusing and let think that it really working. This only happens if you don't use alternative fire mod, with binocular or sights ramp drawes at any distance. The same as at 1.21.
it is just a LOD(Level Of Detail) distance, for game optimization on a high distance. To keep ur FPS stable. If u look better to all vehicles they change appearance depends from a distance, and sometimes they completelly dissapear.
 
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